LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

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GodzillavsZilla
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by GodzillavsZilla »

_JNavs_ wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the Godzilla franchise has never really touched on sex and sexualities.

I'd personally rather they continue that trend.
What about all the sex jokes in KOTM? ;)
Lol I don't really remember any besides the "He's either here for food, fight or ____"

But that's probably my brain rejecting the rather subpar tension breaker jokes.
The MUTO stock footage being called "mating" (even having censoring), the shitty gonorrhea joke, "So Mothra and Godzilla got a thing going on?"
Even shit outside of the movie like Doughtery saying Rodan got pregnant from Mothra stinging him.
All of which are gross af and I don't get why the humor is so 5th grade level.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by Spuro »

GodzillavsZilla wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote: What about all the sex jokes in KOTM? ;)
Lol I don't really remember any besides the "He's either here for food, fight or ____"

But that's probably my brain rejecting the rather subpar tension breaker jokes.
The MUTO stock footage being called "mating" (even having censoring), the shitty gonorrhea joke, "So Mothra and Godzilla got a thing going on?"
Even poop outside of the movie like Doughtery saying Rodan got pregnant from Mothra stinging him.
All of which are gross af and I don't get why the humor is so 5th grade level.
Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be fucking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by DirektorSplennic »

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
GodzillavsZilla wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote: Lol I don't really remember any besides the "He's either here for food, fight or ____"

But that's probably my brain rejecting the rather subpar tension breaker jokes.
The MUTO stock footage being called "mating" (even having censoring), the shitty gonorrhea joke, "So Mothra and Godzilla got a thing going on?"
Even poop outside of the movie like Doughtery saying Rodan got pregnant from Mothra stinging him.
All of which are gross af and I don't get why the humor is so 5th grade level.
Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be fucking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
I actually kinda like that one. It's sort of a reference to The Thing.

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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by G2000 »

Jetty_Jags wrote:
G2000 wrote:Tangentially related but unless I'm mistaken, isn't Dougherty the first gay director in the franchise or was there someone else I'm unaware of?
Is he? I haven't heard or seen anything related to that. If he is, then he probably is the first director, at least openly.
Evidently so -- there's a couple articles referring to him as being gay:

https://medium.com/@petitangebrun/from- ... 8b0a85f8d2
Granger mentions “X2” screenwriters Michael Dougherty and Dan Harris, both of whom are gay
Of course there's evidently another filmmaker named Mike Dougherty who's gay and lives in the LA area so people may just be getting their wires crossed, but eh
Last edited by G2000 on Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by CrimsonBloodX »

I'm all for it as long as the filmmakers don't make make them boring, uninterested, badly-written characters and not doing anything with them.
Kaiju-King42 wrote:Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be skreeonking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
If I remember correctly, the first F-bomb in a Godzilla film was from GMK. It was said by Yutaka Hirose after he accidently hit King Ghidorah with that drill missile during the underwater fight.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by Terasawa »

CrimsonBloodX wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be skreeonking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
If I remember correctly, the first F-bomb in a Godzilla film was from GMK. It was said by Yutaka Hirose after he accidently hit King Ghidorah with that drill missile during the underwater fight.
That's how only one release translates it.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by CrimsonBloodX »

Terasawa wrote:
CrimsonBloodX wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be skreeonking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
If I remember correctly, the first F-bomb in a Godzilla film was from GMK. It was said by Yutaka Hirose after he accidently hit King Ghidorah with that drill missile during the underwater fight.
That's how only one release translates it.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the info.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by eabaker »

G2000 wrote:Of course there's evidently another filmmaker named Mike Dougherty who's gay and lives in the LA area so people may just be getting their wires crossed, but eh
If that's my buddy Mike Dougherty, he's not nearly a prominent enough figure for anyone to have gotten their wires crossed on this, particularly someone who was specifically researching X2.

I mean, maybe there are 3 in the area making films. It's not an uncommon name.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by SonOfGorgo »

So far, I've seen some genuinely decent points here.
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
SonOfGorgo wrote:Start by writing and portraying them as fleshed out, respectable, real human beings just as you would any other character. Don't fall back on stereotypes, don't make them two dimensional with "gay" being their entire personality, and don't queer bait (only saying they're gay in ancillary material or interviews, because you're too cowardly to have it in your film proper).

Treat them and any possible romance the same as you would any character, the only difference being who they're attracted to.
Good advice here especially.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by Spuro »

SonOfGorgo wrote: Good advice here especially.
Aw, thank you. :)
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by Destoroyah of Worlds »

Don't create one for the sake of having a gay character. It would be horrible.

If there is an LGBTQ+ character, it should be because the director has a vision. Not because the studio wants to check a diversity checkbox.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by Terasawa »

I kinda disagree. I think these things have a lot of influence on young people, especially those who might be closeted and struggling. What's it matter why a filmmaker or studio pushed for an LGBTQ character as long as the character isn't a caricature or stereotype?

I know it was more than 50 years ago but,,, Uhura on Star Trek was consistently underused throughout the show's run. In most episodes she's just present on the bridge to tell Captain Kirk a channel to whatever alien planet is open. But because she was black, her character was hugely influential for an entire generation of young black women. Whoopi Goldberg is one famous example. The astronaut Mae Jemison is another. Both cited the Uhura character (often little more important to any given episode than the extras were) as a major inspiration for their eventual career choices.

In that last decade +, more and more advertisements have come out with non-whites in the cast. If you look at just about any American commercial now, you'll see people ticking many different racial, ethnic, and sexual boxes. Surely this is no more than the ad agency's call for diversity. Do you think that every such commercial is directed by a person with a grand vision?

So I don't care if a studio just wants diversity for the sake of diversity. Sometimes that can be enough, as long as you have a character who respectfully represents a minority.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by ShinGojira14 »

If a sequel to Godzilla: Rulers of Earth is made, I would very much be obliged to see more of Lucy and Kristina in their married life.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

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Terasawa wrote:I kinda disagree. I think these things have a lot of influence on young people, especially those who might be closeted and struggling. What's it matter why a filmmaker or studio pushed for an LGBTQ character as long as the character isn't a caricature or stereotype?

I know it was more than 50 years ago but,,, Uhura on Star Trek was consistently underused throughout the show's run. In most episodes she's just present on the bridge to tell Captain Kirk a channel to whatever alien planet is open. But because she was black, her character was hugely influential for an entire generation of young black women. Whoopi Goldberg is one famous example. The astronaut Mae Jemison is another. Both cited the Uhura character (often little more important to any given episode than the extras were) as a major inspiration for their eventual career choices.

In that last decade +, more and more advertisements have come out with non-whites in the cast. If you look at just about any American commercial now, you'll see people ticking many different racial, ethnic, and sexual boxes. Surely this is no more than the ad agency's call for diversity. Do you think that every such commercial is directed by a person with a grand vision?

So I don't care if a studio just wants diversity for the sake of diversity. Sometimes that can be enough, as long as you have a character who respectfully represents a minority.
Yeah, when we're talking about material being produced for a mass-market franchise, almost no decisions are made purely based on the needs of the story. There's always thought given to whom the target market is, and writing and casting choices are made to appeal to them. Basically, if you want to say, "No LGBTQ characters just for the sake of including them," then you have to acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of characters in American movies and TV are straight and white just for the sake of being straight and white.

It's within the power of the people making those choices - choices which are almost always made for commercial reasons - to try to appeal to the LGBTQ audience, which they will do if they view that as an untapped available market; in doing so, they can achieve the beneficial side effect of making a disenfranchised group feel more included in society, and help to normalize their presence to people who might tend to reflexively think of them as "other."
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

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eabaker wrote:Basically, if you want to say, "No LGBTQ characters just for the sake of including them," then you have to acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of characters in American movies and TV are straight and white just for the sake of being straight and white.
:applause:

ANYTHING in fiction is "forced." It's written. It doesn't grow out of the ground. The opposite of "forced" diversity is forced monotony, which is basically indefensible.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

eabaker wrote:
Terasawa wrote:I kinda disagree. I think these things have a lot of influence on young people, especially those who might be closeted and struggling. What's it matter why a filmmaker or studio pushed for an LGBTQ character as long as the character isn't a caricature or stereotype?

I know it was more than 50 years ago but,,, Uhura on Star Trek was consistently underused throughout the show's run. In most episodes she's just present on the bridge to tell Captain Kirk a channel to whatever alien planet is open. But because she was black, her character was hugely influential for an entire generation of young black women. Whoopi Goldberg is one famous example. The astronaut Mae Jemison is another. Both cited the Uhura character (often little more important to any given episode than the extras were) as a major inspiration for their eventual career choices.

In that last decade +, more and more advertisements have come out with non-whites in the cast. If you look at just about any American commercial now, you'll see people ticking many different racial, ethnic, and sexual boxes. Surely this is no more than the ad agency's call for diversity. Do you think that every such commercial is directed by a person with a grand vision?

So I don't care if a studio just wants diversity for the sake of diversity. Sometimes that can be enough, as long as you have a character who respectfully represents a minority.
Yeah, when we're talking about material being produced for a mass-market franchise, almost no decisions are made purely based on the needs of the story. There's always thought given to whom the target market is, and writing and casting choices are made to appeal to them. Basically, if you want to say, "No LGBTQ characters just for the sake of including them," then you have to acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of characters in American movies and TV are straight and white just for the sake of being straight and white.

It's within the power of the people making those choices - choices which are almost always made for commercial reasons - to try to appeal to the LGBTQ audience, which they will do if they view that as an untapped available market; in doing so, they can achieve the beneficial side effect of making a disenfranchised group feel more included in society, and help to normalize their presence to people who might tend to reflexively think of them as "other."
And all of this is even more true for japan which has little positive/normal portrayals of LGBTQ type stuff, making it even more important.

But yeah really good points. I was concerned about tokenism but you really addressed it.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by LegendZilla »

^Japan is always 30 years behind us in terms of acceptance of different races genders, orientations, ect. Heck whereas women got suffrage after WWI in the west, it did not happen in Japan until after WWII.

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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

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LegendZilla wrote:^Japan is always 30 years behind us in terms of acceptance of different races genders, orientations, ect. Heck whereas women got suffrage after WWI in the west, it did not happen in Japan until after WWII.
You don’t need to tell me that ;)

But yeah, that’s why it’s even more important.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by Dino-Mario »

This is a very interesting topic indeed and i'm glad it can be discussed in detail now. While it most likely wasn't the intention, Goro and Hiroshi from GvsM can come across as a positive, wholesome representation of same-sex couples. Honestly, this is something that deserves more attention and should be depicted in a relatable, empathetic fashion, whether in the Godzilla franchise or other media, considering that sadly, Japan still has lots of issues regarding racism, homophobia and many other forms of bigotry.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

As long as the characters are integrated well, aren't stereotypes, and aren't beat over my head to make me feel Corporation cares about human rights, then go for it.
If it's just for the sake of some retweets or clout then piss off.
I don't mean to sound salty but shit like Disney Star Wars has me sick of forced (ha) inclusion.
I guess all we can hope is that Toho, WB or whomever do better than others have.
Last edited by Major sssspielberg! on Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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