Toho Kingdom

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 6:35 am**

Kawakita definitely had bigger budgets, no to mention numerous technical advancements, on his side but his work in the 90s rarely looked as good for their time as Tsuburaya's did in the 60s. Meanwhile Shinji Higuchi had considerably lower budgets on the Gamera trilogy and they blow 90s Godzilla out of the water and remain unmatched.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 6:46 am**

I've heard that Kawakita got frustrated or depressed after vs. Biollante underperformed at the box office, and kind of phoned in most of his work after that.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 6:57 am**

JAGzilla wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 6:46 am I've heard that Kawakita got frustrated or depressed after vs. Biollante underperformed at the box office, and kind of phoned in most of his work after that.

What? I mean I don't blame him, he gave the world fucking gold and they didn't appreciate it those bastardos.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 7:52 am**

With the possible exception of Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla, Godzilla vs Biollante actually had a much shorter production period than the subsequent Heisei and Millennium Godzillas. Ed Godziszewski says:

Oh yeah, a lot of things. [laughs] It was real interesting talking with him [Shinada] about the film. For whatever reason [Godzilla vs.] Biollante tends to be the forgotten Godzilla film. Even when it came out it didn't get half the publicity that any of the other 90s films got. There was hardly any merchandise that came out at the time and there was a good reason for that. The production ended up coming together within half the time you normally have for these kinds of projects.

It had been in development for nearly five years and suddenly, at the end of May 1989, it was like, “Okay! Lets go ahead with Godzilla!” Usually they decide in January or February to do that. So everything was this enormous last minute push to get everything done on a highly shortened schedule.
It's not surprising there wasn't much in the way of merchandise due to the fact that they didn't get done until the last moment.

For example, the gigantic Biollante suit that they use at the end of the film, I call it the Wakasa Version because that's the location of the fight, that wasn't even delivered to the studio until the last week of October. They had a week and a half to two weeks worth of filming with it. Afterwards special effects filming wrapped. So they were down to the last second of getting the final version of Biollante into the film. It was quite a rush job.

...

Yeah, it's funny. They worked the better part of four to five years developing the screenplay and they had a lot of initial design work done, but when they really got the go ahead they revised the script another time in June and spent that same month doing production design. At that point they still hadn't settled on what the final version of Biollante would look like. One of the reasons they didn't get that suit delivered until October is because they didn't settle on [the design] until probably August.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am**

Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

Fuck you.

Fight me.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 8:17 am**

Terasawa wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:52 am With the possible exception of Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla, Godzilla vs Biollante actually had a much shorter production period than the subsequent Heisei and Millennium Godzillas. Ed Godziszewski says:

[For whatever reason [Godzilla vs.] Biollante tends to be the forgotten Godzilla film. Even when it came out it didn't get half the publicity that any of the other 90s films got.

I'm glad to see this has changed.

KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

skreeonk you.

Fight me.

I cant even address this, I dont believe you are serious.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 8:21 am**

shadowgigan wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:17 am
KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

skreeonk you.

Fight me.

I cant even address this, I dont believe you are serious.

You know, while Shin is definitely the deeper, more complex, and more impactful movie, an argument could be made tat the tight, charming Son of Godzilla succeeds more fully at attaining its relatively modest goals.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 8:24 am**

KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

Fuck you.

Fight me.

This is truly an unpopular opinion, especially compared to most in this thread. Congrats.

But I respectfully disagree. I like SoG and I think it's underappreciated by the fandom at large, but I think at best it's just a high-average Godzilla movie, whereas I think Shin is one of the five best Godzillas.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 8:24 am**

KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

skreeonk you.

Fight me.

I agree with you

But, I'll still kick your ass if you want.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 8:34 am**

eabaker wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:21 am
shadowgigan wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:17 am
KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

skreeonk you.

Fight me.

I cant even address this, I dont believe you are serious.
You know, while Shin is definitely the deeper, more complex, and more impactful movie, an argument could be made tat the tight, charming Son of Godzilla succeeds more fully at attaining its relatively modest goals.

That would be my exact argument, yep.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 9:04 am**

KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:34 am
eabaker wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:21 am
shadowgigan wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:17 am
I cant even address this, I dont believe you are serious.
You know, while Shin is definitely the deeper, more complex, and more impactful movie, an argument could be made tat the tight, charming Son of Godzilla succeeds more fully at attaining its relatively modest goals.
That would be my exact argument, yep.

So you are serious? I guess I understand the argument can be made. I can even understand preferring SOG. But I dont think you can argue that it is just a flat out better movie. Whatever. I'm not going to argue you can't prefer it either. Perhaps its just a difference in taste.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 9:09 am**

KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:34 am
eabaker wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:21 am
shadowgigan wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:17 am
I cant even address this, I dont believe you are serious.
You know, while Shin is definitely the deeper, more complex, and more impactful movie, an argument could be made tat the tight, charming Son of Godzilla succeeds more fully at attaining its relatively modest goals.
That would be my exact argument, yep.

If you prefer SOG to Shin that is fine with you, I don't agree but you are free to that opinion. But I do feel Shin is stronger as a political commentary than SOG is at a father/son bonding flick. So I don't agree on the notion of SOG doing its job better than Shin does at its.

Especially given how in the recent decade we've had a lot of high quality father/son (Or daughter) stories that I feel take more advantage of the simplistic but character-driven concept.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 9:26 am**

godjacob wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:09 am
KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:34 am
eabaker wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:21 am

You know, while Shin is definitely the deeper, more complex, and more impactful movie, an argument could be made tat the tight, charming Son of Godzilla succeeds more fully at attaining its relatively modest goals.
That would be my exact argument, yep.
If you prefer SOG to Shin that is fine with you, I don't agree but you are free to that opinion. But I do feel Shin is stronger as a political commentary than SOG is at a father/son bonding flick. So I don't agree on the notion of SOG doing its job better than Shin does at its.

Especially given how in the recent decade we've had a lot of high quality father/son (Or daughter) stories that I feel take more advantage of the simplistic but character-driven concept.

Is SOG first and foremost a father/son bonding flick, though? I think of it more as an ensemble adventure story with a theme or motif of letting down personal boundaries and surviving adversity together, which applies to Godzilla and Minya, sure, but also to Goro, Saeko and the various members of the research team.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 9:31 am**

KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

Fuck you.

Fight me.

Hmmm...i wonder what certain post made by a certain user on another certain topic caused this one to be made. Just can’t seem put my finger on it...

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 9:42 am**

eabaker wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:26 am Is SOG first and foremost a father/son bonding flick, though? I think of it more as an ensemble adventure story with a theme or motif of letting down personal boundaries and surviving adversity together, which applies to Godzilla and Minya, sure, but also to Goro, Saeko and the various members of the research team.

Interesting that, in a very broad way, those are typical Hawksian tropes.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 11:27 am**

eabaker wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:26 am
godjacob wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:09 am
KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:34 am

That would be my exact argument, yep.
If you prefer SOG to Shin that is fine with you, I don't agree but you are free to that opinion. But I do feel Shin is stronger as a political commentary than SOG is at a father/son bonding flick. So I don't agree on the notion of SOG doing its job better than Shin does at its.

Especially given how in the recent decade we've had a lot of high quality father/son (Or daughter) stories that I feel take more advantage of the simplistic but character-driven concept.
Is SOG first and foremost a father/son bonding flick, though? I think of it more as an ensemble adventure story with a theme or motif of letting down personal boundaries and surviving adversity together, which applies to Godzilla and Minya, sure, but also to Goro, Saeko and the various members of the research team.

I don't even have the mental capacity to engage with the film on that level. For what it's worth, I always looked at is as a father/son bonding tale as well.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 2:48 pm**

KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

skreeonk you.

Fight me.

.....you know, I can't even argue because I have less problems with Son then I do Shin, so you're right.

I still fucking love them both to bits though.

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2021 1:09 pm**

KK42 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:55 am Son of Godzilla is a better movie than Shin Godzilla.

skreeonk you.

Fight me.

I actually prefer SOG to Shin, but if you want we can duel at 5 paces.

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2021 7:35 am**

I guess my opinion that Son of Godzilla isn't a particularly good film is an unpopular one.

My main complaint is that weather control plot doesn't make sense. Like the lead scientist pushed his men to the point of mental breakdown and endangered all of their lives, so one would think this story has an Aesop about not creating weather control devices. But then at the end of the movie they create a snowstorm to pacify the kaiju, so maybe the scientists' reckless behavior was justified? Except that Godzilla and Minilla end up defeating Kumonga anyway, and they weren't really hostile themselves, making the snowstorm that lulls them into hibernation appear pointless and even cruel. It didn't feel like there were any real consequences for the human characters' actions.

Mostly it feels like a less smart version of Vs the Sea Monster.

Posted: **Wed May 12, 2021 9:32 am**

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I hate it when fans “shit” on certain eras or films as a whole. Sure, I don’t really like SOG. But I still think there’s a high degree of artistic talent present on that staff. Even if the suit doesn’t look good, it’s still 10,000x better than anything I could make. So I really respect the artistry that went into the tokusatsu style.

I don’t think you have to like the SPFX or even the film itself. But some fans act arrogant and disrespectful, and I get the impression they think they could have done better. To be clear, this doesn’t come from this board. This is a response to certain you tubers who claim to be fans yet very rarely have anything positive to say about the films. I’m also not trying to gatekeep, more so just pointing out it doesn’t make sense to me to be a “fan” of something you clearly don’t enjoy.

Edit: post wasn’t about SOG, just used it as an example.

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