Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

[JAGzilla]

Objectively speaking, 56 is the superior design by a mile. I do really like the goofier '60s look, too, though. I kind of waffle back and forth on which I prefer.

[Jetty_Jags]

I think the concept of kaiju as some satanic archetype is probably the least interesting way to design one. Now partially this comes from an annoyance in the greater genre media landscape with the endless pursuit of more innately diabolical characters, and the absurdities that arise from trying to outdo previous entrees. Where do we go after a villain's plan is the literal extinction of half the universe? But partially this is an issue that the limitations of the kaiju genre only amplify. At least with humanoid characters there can be some attempt of rationalizing their actions, they can be given some kind of emotional core, even if the execution isn't always exemplary. But with kaiju the degree of expounding on these features is severely hindered. Not to say kaiju can't be tragedies themselves, obviously the genre blatantly refutes such a claim. Rather, the tragic existential force already exists in spades within the genre, and the dynamic is purely one between nature and man (or some deviation of such). Thus, illustrating the issue of the satanic kaiju, as the intention is often to provide some existential threat to the characters who already are existential threats. In order to frame which threat the audience should root for in most cases eschew the sense of tragedy that provided the needed depth for such an opponent to be interesting in the first place. Therefore Satanic kaiju usually fail at being a "Miltonian" rendition of a "tragic Lucifer". Yet this isn't the only satanic archetype characters can fall into, the other being of the "Faustian" variety. Unfortunately kaiju are even less equipped to occupy this archetype. Perhaps the most endearing qualities of these Satanic figures (not a phrase I ever imagined writing) is their cunning persona, the façade of comradery and friendship, and the ultimate betrayal once their true motivations become clear. The issue being that the majority of these traits require a level of anthropomorphism far beyond even the most humanized versions of kaiju the genre has seen. So as far as wanting kaiju antagonists who are literally the devil, all I can say is, "Not today satan".

[Maritonic]

Uh... what?

[_JNavs_]

I'm lost

[Cryptid_Liker]

I think he's talking about kaiju that are supposed to evoke demons or even be the devil.

[Maritonic]

I think he's talking about kaiju that are supposed to evoke demons or even be the devil.

Well, problem number one is it's completely without context. But secondly, who exactly is he referring to? Destroyah is the one commonly compared to Satan, and that's really just because of the aesthetics. It's just seemingly completely out of nowhere.

[eabaker]

While I'd like a little more context regarding specific kaiju/narratives (there are definitely some Ultra kaiju that could fall under the "evocative of Satan" heading, and a case could by made for Iris as a Satanic figure), I appreciate the overall point, which is that the genre doesn't leand itself to a particularly in-depth or nuanced take on a Satanic figure. It's largely a matter of window dressing/atmosphere/mood.

ETA: Actually, on further thought, I think Iris is a pretty big step towards a Mephistophelian kaiju, and could be tweaked to really fulfill that role.

[miguelnuva]

Iris is like a fallen angel more so then a full on demon or devil appraise wise I feel due to the beauty and majestic it has.

Iris does act like a demon however as it offers seduction and kinship only to trick you in the end.

[goji89]

Iris is a mutated Gyaos.

It's not a God it's not a demon it's just a mutated Gyoas.

End of story.

[Terasawa]

Iris is a mutated Gyaos.

It's not a God it's not a demon it's just a mutated Gyoas.

End of story.

Well, no, it's not the end of the story, because the Japanese title tells us that we're to pronounce this word -> 邪神 ("evil god", normally pronounced "jyashin") as "Iris."

Edit: Correction -- the posters include the furigana for 邪神 but the opening title does not. Still, the on screen title is (essentially, because there's a lot of different text) "Gamera 3: Evil God Awakening." If the filmmakers didn't want us to equate Iris with an evil god, they wouldn't have used those kanji.

[miguelnuva]

Iris is a mutated Gyaos.

It's not a God it's not a demon it's just a mutated Gyoas.

End of story.

Well, no, it's not the end of the story, because the Japanese title tells us that we're to pronounce this word -> 邪神 ("evil god", normally pronounced "jyashin") as "Iris."

Edit: Correction -- the posters include the furigana for 邪神 but the opening title does not. Still, the on screen title is (essentially, because there's a lot of different text) "Gamera 3: Evil God Awakening." If the filmmakers didn't want us to equate Iris with an evil god, they wouldn't have used those kanji.

What is a God anyway other then something we don't understand and worship.

[Jetty_Jags]

In my attempts to contextualize my post, I have come to realize that my thought process prior to writing is borderline incoherent. None-the-less I'll attempt to give some background.

There are a few main reasons for writing this, but they majorly reduce to: thinking about the satanic archetypes in fiction, and recently re-watching GTTM. Now, I'm not claiming Ghidorah was designed to be a satanic figure, but it had got me thinking about the imagery used in 2019s KOTM, and how effective or ineffective it was (as my opinions on said film at large are probably well known on these forums, I'll keep my discussion regarding it to a minimum). As with the majority of the kaiju present, there was a great focus on tying the existence to each monster to a singular or set of mythical creatures, of which Satan is the major figure tied to Ghidorah. While the obvious indicator being the well circulated Ghidorah/volcano/cross shot, there are quite a few others. Notably the artic imprisonment of ghidorah being a reference to Dante Aligeri's first work of his Divine Comedy, "Inferno", where Satan rests at the lowest circle of hell, frozen in ice caused by the strong winds of his giant wings. In an offense to the Christian trinity, this depiction of Satan has three heads, each holding one of histories most heinous traitorsin thier maw. Furthermore, the very design of this Ghidorah is an homage to one of Willam Blake's representations of Satan (who interestingly enough is the author of the "Tyger" poem found in Singular Point), seen here https://imgur.com/r/godzilla/TCCvtHj.

Furthermore I have seen a few posts discussing where to move the series next, a la the reintroduction of a character like Destroyah, with some supporting justification being that they are the satan equivalent of kaiju. As previously mentioned in this thread, that line of thinking has more to do with aesthetic depictions, rather than actual character traits, and I concede that this probably manifested as a strawman in my head as I was thinking about the other ideas. So long story short a bunch of things got me thinking about this topic, and I most likely invented a "popular opinion" that no one actually holds .

[edgaguirus]

I might say that there is some distinction between mythical creatures and religious/god figures. Behemoth and Scylla are not seen as gods in their stories. Behemoth is described in Job as a fierce and powerful animal. Scylla is a woman transformed into a horror. Neither one is depicted as a god.

MV Mothra may not be depicted as a god figure, but the character has been seen as such. Mothra is a symbol of eternity, peace, and goodwill. Combined with its beautiful appearance, Mothra is the closest we come to an religious figure kaiju. All other "demon" kaiju just seem to look the part as they do what all villainous kaiju do- destroy things.

[Kaiju-Killer 751]

I kind of have to agree with Jetty_Jags, at least somewhat; It can be kinda tiresome to see wave after wave of 'too edgy too dark' Kaiju designs meant to invoke a stereotypical or mythological aesthetic for an intimidation factor that sometimes just ends up falling flat. Not all of them are bad by any means, but after so many takes or attempts to make another 'I AM THE DEVIL' kind of Kaiju or similar satanic standin, it's a bit much.

[_JNavs_]

I feel like we've seen maybe one or two tops of the devil stereotype. Battra and Destoroyah.

Ghidorah by nature is evil incarnate.

[goji89]

I feel like we've seen maybe one or two tops of the devil stereotype. Battra and Destoroyah.

Ghidorah by nature is evil incarnate.

I don't see it that way.

Ghidorah is not evil in that it is a balance.
Where there is life there is death. A God of destruction if you will. If anything those that manipulate it are the real evil ones.

[Voyager]

I feel like we've seen maybe one or two tops of the devil stereotype. Battra and Destoroyah.

Ghidorah by nature is evil incarnate.

I don't see it that way.

Ghidorah is not evil in that it is a balance.
Where there is life there is death. A God of destruction if you will. If anything those that manipulate it are the real evil ones.

I guess, but I like to see the Cosmic Ghidorah’s (Showa, RoM3, MV, Void) as just pure evil, doing what they please. They’re outside the order. They are not like fires in the forests clearing way for new growth, but rather a violent storm, just causing unnecessary destruction.

[Maritonic]

I feel like we've seen maybe one or two tops of the devil stereotype. Battra and Destoroyah.

Ghidorah by nature is evil incarnate.

I don't see it that way.

Ghidorah is not evil in that it is a balance.
Where there is life there is death. A God of destruction if you will. If anything those that manipulate it are the real evil ones.

I guess, but I like to see the Cosmic Ghidorah’s (Showa, RoM3, MV, Void) as just pure evil, doing what they please. They’re outside the order. They are not like fires in the forests clearing way for new growth, but rather a violent storm, just causing unnecessary destruction.

But even violent storms are part of the balance of nature.

The only one to me that really comes close to a "devil" stereotype would be MonsterVerse Ghidorah. But even then I don't really see it that way; I just see these kaiju as a counterbalance or product of man's folly. Not evil incarnate.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Those MMD Godzilla Earth animations aren't nearly as good as people act.

The Mechagodzilla one is fine, it's a nice scenario of what could have been. The one with Earth fighting the army is boring as hell, it feels just like any other Godzilla film but it's tolerable. But the Ghidorah one is AWFUL. It's a dizzying and painful to watch mess of beams that would make even Kawikata cry and that's not even talking about when it's just verbatim ripping off King of the Monsters. I hate the lazy biting and struggling in Planet Eater but a better alternative, it is not.

I might just shrug and ignore them if it weren't for the fact a vocal majority of the fandom acts like they are better then the animes and I really hate the idea that confusing monster fights are better then actual stories because the monsters fight. Again, I don't think the animes are perfect but it's a sentiment that frustrates the hell out of me.

[Gigantis]

Those MMD Godzilla Earth animations aren't nearly as good as people act.

The Mechagodzilla one is fine, it's a nice scenario of what could have been. The one with Earth fighting the army is boring as hell, it feels just like any other Godzilla film but it's tolerable. But the Ghidorah one is AWFUL. It's a dizzying and painful to watch mess of beams that would make even Kawikata cry and that's not even talking about when it's just verbatim ripping off King of the Monsters. I hate the lazy biting and struggling in Planet Eater but a better alternative, it is not.

I might just shrug and ignore them if it weren't for the fact a vocal majority of the fandom acts like they are better then the animes and I really hate the idea that confusing monster fights are better then actual stories because the monsters fight. Again, I don't think the animes are perfect but it's a sentiment that frustrates the hell out of me.

I honestly find myself agreeing with this. And i'll even go as far to say the Mechagodzilla animation honestly is.. pretty boring. It doesn't manage to capture even the slightest form of tension, it's just a slog to watch and makes me want to rather watch and actual Godzilla movie instead and has some actual good fighting like King Kong vs. Godzilla.