Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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eabaker
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by eabaker »

mikelcho wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:44 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:15 pm Continuity can be a strength if done right. Yet Toho for the past 2 decades has treated it as little more than a hinderance.
I agree. The film series that, imo, has the bset sense of continuity is the Star Wars series.

I've seen all 11 films and not only did I like the entire saga, the continuity between all the films was absolutely perfect. Everything led into, and was connected with, everything that came before and after.
Star Wars is notorious for glaring, awkward ret-cons. As far back as, "Leia is my sister," things have been popping up that were unmistakably not part of the design of the original movie; and Lucasfilm has found it necessary to go back and alter aspects of the OT in order to conform to discrepancies introduced by later movies.
Last edited by eabaker on Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by mikelcho »

eabaker wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:17 pm
mikelcho wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:44 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:15 pm Continuity can be a strength if done right. Yet Toho for the past 2 decades has treated it as little more than a hinderance.
I agree. The film series that, imo, has the bset sense of continuity is the Star Wars series.

I've seen all 11 films and not only did I like the entire saga, the continuity between all the films was absolutely perfect. Everything led into, and was connected with, everything that came before and after.
Star Wars is notorious for glaring, awkward ret-cons. As far back as, "Leia is my sister," things have been popping up that were unmistakably not part of the design of the original movie; and Lucasfilm has found it necessary to go back and alter aspects of the OT in order to conform to discrepancies introduced by later movies.
Question: what was the design of the first film? Do you even know? Does anyone know?
Last edited by mikelcho on Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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mikelcho wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:44 pm
eabaker wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:17 pm
mikelcho wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:44 pm I agree. The film series that, imo, has the bset sense of continuity is the Star Wars series.

I've seen all 11 films and not only did I like the entire saga, the continuity between all the films was absolutely perfect. Everything led into, and was connected with, everything that came before and after.
Star Wars is notorious for glaring, awkward ret-cons. As far back as, "Leia is my sister," things have been popping up that were unmistakably not part of the design of the original movie; and Lucasfilm has found it necessary to go back and alter aspects of the OT in order to conform to discrepancies introduced by later movies.
Question: what was the design of the first film? Do you even know? Does anyone know?
I'm not really sure what it is you're asking. The development of the story has been pretty well catalogued, from Lucas's early treatments all the way through significant changes made in the edit. Ultimately, though, regardless of what the process was, we know for a fact what the film consisted of when it was released to theaters in 1977.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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eabaker wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 am
mikelcho wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:44 pm
eabaker wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:17 pm

Star Wars is notorious for glaring, awkward ret-cons. As far back as, "Leia is my sister," things have been popping up that were unmistakably not part of the design of the original movie; and Lucasfilm has found it necessary to go back and alter aspects of the OT in order to conform to discrepancies introduced by later movies.
Question: what was the design of the first film? Do you even know? Does anyone know?
I'm not really sure what it is you're asking. The development of the story has been pretty well catalogued, from Lucas's early treatments all the way through significant changes made in the edit. Ultimately, though, regardless of what the process was, we know for a fact what the film consisted of when it was released to theaters in 1977.
I think they are asking, "what was the plan for the Luke, Leia relationship if it wasn't always intended that they are siblings?"
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:40 am
eabaker wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 am
mikelcho wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:44 pm Question: what was the design of the first film? Do you even know? Does anyone know?
I'm not really sure what it is you're asking. The development of the story has been pretty well catalogued, from Lucas's early treatments all the way through significant changes made in the edit. Ultimately, though, regardless of what the process was, we know for a fact what the film consisted of when it was released to theaters in 1977.
I think they are asking, "what was the plan for the Luke, Leia relationship if it wasn't always intended that they are siblings?"
All evidence suggests that the plan was exactly what the first movie sets up: potential love interests.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:40 am
eabaker wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 am
mikelcho wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:44 pm Question: what was the design of the first film? Do you even know? Does anyone know?
I'm not really sure what it is you're asking. The development of the story has been pretty well catalogued, from Lucas's early treatments all the way through significant changes made in the edit. Ultimately, though, regardless of what the process was, we know for a fact what the film consisted of when it was released to theaters in 1977.
I think they are asking, "what was the plan for the Luke, Leia relationship if it wasn't always intended that they are siblings?"
No because Luke has a sister that is named in the orginal ESB draft and Vader and Anakin are too different people.

To stay on topic however I think a continuity between the showa and Heisei series is key. I've always liked it where you don't have to see a previous film but if you did you get a little extra out of the plot.

Also I thought Long and hard on this but

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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edgaguirus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
I agree, I like the strength of continuity in the showa series but also see how the same thing can be a weakness for example the Heisei series in which Toho themselves thought the films were too connected.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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edgaguirus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LegendZilla wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:51 pm
edgaguirus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.
Gamera 2 if were honest works as a stand alone film. Gamera 1 and Gamera 3 are the only ones that have a hard connection.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LegendZilla wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:51 pm
edgaguirus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.
Toho has had over 25 years to try to match the Gamera trilogy and they haven't. Kinda lost hope on that one.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Legion1979 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:00 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:51 pm
edgaguirus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.
Toho has had over 25 years to try to match the Gamera trilogy and they haven't. Kinda lost hope on that one.
I take it you're not really a fan of literally any post-Showa Godzilla film.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Legion1979 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:00 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:51 pm
edgaguirus wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:46 pm Continuity is fine as long as it serves the story you are telling. The dialogue bit that connects MvsG and G3HM is a good lead into the suggestion of the monster alliance against Ghidorah, and the search for MG's head that begins ToMG is a logical link to the previous film. Others, like Seatopia asking to borrow a cup of Gigan, are just there. I'm not objecting to "there" connections, however. They do work.
^This if Kadokawa/Daiei can pull off a trilogy of consistently high-quality kaiju films with Gamera, Toho can do it with Godzilla if given the right team and formula.
Toho has had over 25 years to try to match the Gamera trilogy and they haven't. Kinda lost hope on that one.
I'd argue ROG and Godzilla vs Bio are in the same tier as the Gamera Trilogy. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and Destroyah can hold their own with the Trilogy.

Then there is GMK and Shin for those that like Shin.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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None of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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In all fairness, I don't think Toho has honestly tried to match the Gamera trilogy. GMK and Shin are the only cases since the '80s where any actual effort went in. They've just been content to crap out mediocrity, otherwise.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Toho doesn't care, because as good as they are, the Gamera movies didn't make Godzilla money. And we know money is really all Tohp cares about.

The 70th anniversary is going to be lousy with inane exclusive merchandise and bizarre international partnerships but little in the way of true quality Godzilla media.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Legion1979 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:18 am Mone of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
That's the great thing about subjectivity though. I'd argue the 80's films are in the same tier.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Legion1979 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:18 am Mone of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
Yeah, that's pretty fair.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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miguelnuva wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:01 am
Legion1979 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:18 am Mone of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
That's the great thing about subjectivity though. I'd argue the 80's films are in the same tier.
Yes, subjectivity is nice.

Doesn't change the fact that, as a complete package, Godzilla vs Biollante as a functioning movie isn't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as the Gamera movies. It's just not. I dont know how anyone for any reasion, aside from completely blind, fanboy preference could say ANY Heisei Godzilla film is better.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Legion1979 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:33 am
miguelnuva wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:01 am
Legion1979 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:18 am Mone of the films in the Heisei Godzilla series can touch the Gamera trilogy. Sorry.
That's the great thing about subjectivity though. I'd argue the 80's films are in the same tier.
Yes, subjectivity is nice.

Doesn't change the fact that, as a complete package, Godzilla vs Biollante as a functioning movie isn't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as the Gamera movies. It's just not. I dont know how anyone for any reasion, aside from completely blind, fanboy preference could say ANY Heisei Godzilla film is better.
Yeah, no. I'd take half the Heisei Godzilla movies over Guardian of the Universe. Easily. But, you know; good thing we can't disagree on opinions without being blind fanboys.
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