Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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MorgolKing
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Showzilla wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:35 pm Guys, the movies never state he's any where NEAR 250 M

The closest thing we have to a statement on his age COMES from the movies and says his ANCESTORS fought the war. Even if he was born RIGHT AFTER, this war was still fought while humans walked the earth.

Even awakening never explicitly said "this is Godzilla, he's 250 M" that was a character in story THEORIZING it.
The movie states that MYTHS say their ancestors fought in a great war. Additionally, it doesn't mean he wasn't around during the war. Depending on the lifespan, you could be living with thousands of your ancestors.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Pkmatrix wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:29 am
BennettCommando wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:05 pm
He remembered the glimpse of a tiny creature, one of his, reaching to touch him, the obliterating light that followed. Renewed, he had risen, and fought, and triumphed. He proclaimed himself and the others bowed to him. But no war is won so easily. He knew this from his own memories, but also from other recollections that came to him from a far deeper place, from the darkness before his eyes first opened. They were not the same recollections as those he had experienced himself; there were no colors or remembered shapes or even places, but instead a deep certainty. As his senses stretched to encompass the wind that blew from the heart of the planet and encircled the world above to meet the winds from the sun, as he could feel the slow rivers of molten rock flowing, colliding, swallowing land, giving birth to it, the cycle of hot rise and cold fall in the waters, the pumping heart of the oceans, everything that was now, so too did he feel what was, when the surface of the earth was liquid rock, when waters came, when ice covered everything, when the green life came and clawed its way onto bare rock. When many of his kind lived, fighting always, and the New Ones came to try to claim dominance.
He had settled the latest war. And then he had sought his own place to rest. But the same light that had given him the energy to fight had also destroyed that place. So he searched for another, and found it, wrestling it from a terrible adversary. He called the others to their places of rest. And there, in the warmth, in the hollow bones of the earth, he had rested his weary, battered body, knowing that eventually the planet would call him back. He drifted into the half-dream, where present and past were the same.
Time passed, no more than a single blink of his eye, it seemed. Then came an itch, a taste on the back of his tongue. Familiar but not familiar. Out of place and wrong. He tried to ignore it at first, because it seemed so insignificant; a tiny parasite trying to burrow into his scales.
But it grew, and as it grew, so did his anger. They should not dare. They should know better.
He broke from the half-sleep, his dreaming ended. He reached out to the other Titans, those woken by Ghidorah and all of the others, too. They were all still where they were supposed to be, quiet, at rest.
All but one; one that should be there but was not.
He pulled himself up. The time for rest was done. His gaze rested on the gigantic skull of the enemy, the ancient adversary his kind had once driven from this place but never completely defeated. He shrieked his warning, his threat, his growing rage.
And then he began his long journey back to the surface, to find the itch in his scales and end it forever.
Since I was not a native speaker, I find myself struggling to comprehend this excerpt, which was written in Godzilla's perspective.
What exactly does the passage “But no war is won so easily. He knew this from his own memories, but also from other recollections that came to him from a far deeper place, from the darkness before his eyes first opened. They were not the same recollections as those he had experienced himself; there were no colors or remembered shapes or even places, but instead a deep certainty. ” means ?

In later half of the passage, it also mentioned the part “When the surface of the Earth was liquid rock.”

Some people interpreted the excerpt as “Godzilla and his species were so old that his, or his species' entire history traces back to the Genesis of the planet.”

However, the forum seems to think that while “Titanus Gojira” is old, “Godzilla” is definitely not the oldest member of its species.
It's a description of Godzilla having Genetic Memories, memories he inherited from his parents and earlier ancestors through his DNA and not of his own. It's the same as the explanation Nathan gives in the movie for why Kong would know where to go if they brought him to the Hollow Earth, even though he as an individual had never been there having been born on Skull Island.

Genetic Memory is how, IMO, the writers of GvK and the Graphic Novels are retconning anything earlier that suggested Godzilla was 250M years old since they clearly now want him to be only a few thousand years old: anything from his POV in Awakening, Aftershock, or the novelizations that suggested he'd been alive since the Permian are NOT actually his real memories, but genetic memories of his ancestors' lives. He knows what it was like in the Permian and remembers the Permian Extinction and the War because he had ancestors who lived through those things, he himself never experienced those because he's like 50,000 or 100,000 years old or something. It's the writers' way of having their cake and eating it too.
They're also taking advantage of "nah, it was scientist with incomplete data"

Added in 2 minutes 14 seconds:
MorgolKing wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:57 am
Showzilla wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:35 pm Guys, the movies never state he's any where NEAR 250 M

The closest thing we have to a statement on his age COMES from the movies and says his ANCESTORS fought the war. Even if he was born RIGHT AFTER, this war was still fought while humans walked the earth.

Even awakening never explicitly said "this is Godzilla, he's 250 M" that was a character in story THEORIZING it.
The movie states that MYTHS say their ancestors fought in a great war. Additionally, it doesn't mean he wasn't around during the war. Depending on the lifespan, you could be living with thousands of your ancestors.
The myths are the best we have. He also references genetic memory when he's talking about the war with the Kong's. His kind, memories not his own and so on.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Showzilla wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:28 pm
Spydrmanjr wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:11 pm
Showzilla wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:59 pm On another note, the novel does explain why Godzilla doesn't poison any area he walks through
Why's that?
His body radiates HE energy, uses it to do everything from blast poop to move his muscles. He absorbs radiation and converts it into HE energy.
That’s interesting. Does this imply that his atomic breath isn’t actually nuclear radiation but HE energy?
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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kaijukurt wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 am
Showzilla wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:28 pm
Spydrmanjr wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:11 pm

Why's that?
His body radiates HE energy, uses it to do everything from blast poop to move his muscles. He absorbs radiation and converts it into HE energy.
That’s interesting. Does this imply that his atomic breath isn’t actually nuclear radiation but HE energy?
Iirc, it almost states that word for word

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Showzilla wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:04 pm
kaijukurt wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 am
Showzilla wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:28 pm

His body radiates HE energy, uses it to do everything from blast poop to move his muscles. He absorbs radiation and converts it into HE energy.
That’s interesting. Does this imply that his atomic breath isn’t actually nuclear radiation but HE energy?
Iirc, it almost states that word for word
The HE energy is nuclear radiation it just heals instead of poisons like ours.
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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miguelnuva wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:08 pm
Showzilla wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:04 pm
kaijukurt wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:56 am

That’s interesting. Does this imply that his atomic breath isn’t actually nuclear radiation but HE energy?
Iirc, it almost states that word for word
The HE energy is nuclear radiation it just heals instead of poisons like ours.
Tbf, almost all forms of energy are radiation

The sun? A giant H-bomb

The core? A nuclear furnace

HE energy is radiation in that same way but it is very distinct from the energy that you get from something like the elephants foot.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Showzilla wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:13 am
Pkmatrix wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:29 am
BennettCommando wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:05 pm

Since I was not a native speaker, I find myself struggling to comprehend this excerpt, which was written in Godzilla's perspective.
What exactly does the passage “But no war is won so easily. He knew this from his own memories, but also from other recollections that came to him from a far deeper place, from the darkness before his eyes first opened. They were not the same recollections as those he had experienced himself; there were no colors or remembered shapes or even places, but instead a deep certainty. ” means ?

In later half of the passage, it also mentioned the part “When the surface of the Earth was liquid rock.”

Some people interpreted the excerpt as “Godzilla and his species were so old that his, or his species' entire history traces back to the Genesis of the planet.”

However, the forum seems to think that while “Titanus Gojira” is old, “Godzilla” is definitely not the oldest member of its species.
It's a description of Godzilla having Genetic Memories, memories he inherited from his parents and earlier ancestors through his DNA and not of his own. It's the same as the explanation Nathan gives in the movie for why Kong would know where to go if they brought him to the Hollow Earth, even though he as an individual had never been there having been born on Skull Island.

Genetic Memory is how, IMO, the writers of GvK and the Graphic Novels are retconning anything earlier that suggested Godzilla was 250M years old since they clearly now want him to be only a few thousand years old: anything from his POV in Awakening, Aftershock, or the novelizations that suggested he'd been alive since the Permian are NOT actually his real memories, but genetic memories of his ancestors' lives. He knows what it was like in the Permian and remembers the Permian Extinction and the War because he had ancestors who lived through those things, he himself never experienced those because he's like 50,000 or 100,000 years old or something. It's the writers' way of having their cake and eating it too.
They're also taking advantage of "nah, it was scientist with incomplete data"

Added in 2 minutes 14 seconds:
MorgolKing wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:57 am
Showzilla wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:35 pm Guys, the movies never state he's any where NEAR 250 M

The closest thing we have to a statement on his age COMES from the movies and says his ANCESTORS fought the war. Even if he was born RIGHT AFTER, this war was still fought while humans walked the earth.

Even awakening never explicitly said "this is Godzilla, he's 250 M" that was a character in story THEORIZING it.
The movie states that MYTHS say their ancestors fought in a great war. Additionally, it doesn't mean he wasn't around during the war. Depending on the lifespan, you could be living with thousands of your ancestors.
The myths are the best we have. He also references genetic memory when he's talking about the war with the Kong's. His kind, memories not his own and so on.

Thank you for answering my questions.
Anyway, so far I have found at least 3 interpretations of this excerpt.

1.
Godzilla is indeed almost as old as the planet itself. His kind like Dagon were more like spawns of this Godzilla.

2.
The superspecies “Titanus Gojira” might be billions of years old, but “Godzilla” himself is not that ancient. However, he could gain the memories and information of ancient Earth by accessing Genetic Memories of his kind.

3.
Godzilla was not just connected to his kind's Genetic Memories, but also connected to the will of Earth herself. Godzilla, although not the eldest of its species, was an agent of Mother Earth, who exterminates all kinds of threat under the planet's call.

This interpretation comes from this excerpt:
As his senses stretched to encompass the wind that blew from the heart of the planet and encircled the world above to meet the winds from the sun, as he could feel the slow rivers of molten rock flowing, colliding, swallowing land, giving birth to it, the cycle of hot rise and cold fall in the waters, the pumping heart of the oceans, everything that was now, so too did he feel what was, when the surface of the earth was liquid rock, when waters came, when ice covered everything, when the green life came and clawed its way onto bare rock. When many of his kind lived, fighting always, and the New Ones came to try to claim dominance.
Either way, I support the second or the third interpretation. As they could explain the relations between Godzilla and his kind more reasonably.With Genetic Memories,a Titan doesn't necessarily need to live billions of years to obtain those information.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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I dunno if this has already been stated but the novelization of GvK implies that Godzilla is the only member of his species that can fire the atomic breath, which was granted after absorbing the unique energy in the Hollow Earth. The Iwi described this as "[eating] a star" and "throw[ing] rays of the star from his mouth and burn[ing] things."

I really gotta buy the novelization because the world building and lore of it all is incredibly interesting
Last edited by Jermobooka on Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Jermobooka wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:17 am I dunno if this has already been stated but the novelization of GvK implies that Godzilla is the only member of his species that can fire the atomic breath, which was granted after absorbing the unique energy in the Hollow Earth. The Iwi described this as "[eating] a star" and "throw[ing] rays of the star from his mouth and burn[ing] things."

I really gotta buy the novelization because the world building and lore of it all is incredibly interesting
Well, Dagon held the title “Lord of Lightning”, so I wouldn't say Godzilla is the only one of his kind that can use Atomic Breath. And I remember somebody mentioned before that Zo-zla-halawa might be a plural word that represents Titanus Gojira as a whole, rather than “Godzilla” himself.

Added in 16 minutes 12 seconds:
There is a question that my friend and I are keep discussing about. It was an issue concerning Godzilla's former encounter with a Titanus Kong. My friend believed that Godzilla did encountered the Titanus Kong in Hollow Earth, or a place which was not Skull Island.

The current understanding of the prequel comic, is that Godzilla went to Skull Island at some point, but was forced to retreat due to a Titanus Kong. However, my friend did not agree with that. The narration in the flashback stated that the island he visited was a place he might called home. He thinks that it would not be reasonable if the island was Skull Island, as the event, clearly happened after the Gojira/Kong War,the Kongs would have moved to Skull Island during the time when Godzilla visited the unknown island. And in the final scene of the comic, Godzilla's new lair was apparently located in Hollow Earth, and in his flashback, the Titanus Kong who drove Godzilla away also seemed to be in Hollow Earth. It is implied that the Titanus Kong Skull might be the very guy that drove Godzilla away in the distant past.

My friend concluded that Godzilla may not be “as old as the planet”, but he still might be super old,who thrived in Permain Era, and was likely old enough to take part in the Gojira/Kong War.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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BennettCommando wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:42 am
Jermobooka wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:17 am I dunno if this has already been stated but the novelization of GvK implies that Godzilla is the only member of his species that can fire the atomic breath, which was granted after absorbing the unique energy in the Hollow Earth. The Iwi described this as "[eating] a star" and "throw[ing] rays of the star from his mouth and burn[ing] things."

I really gotta buy the novelization because the world building and lore of it all is incredibly interesting
Well, Dagon held the title “Lord of Lightning”, so I wouldn't say Godzilla is the only one of his kind that can use Atomic Breath. And I remember somebody mentioned before that Zo-zla-halawa might be a plural word that represents Titanus Gojira as a whole, rather than “Godzilla” himself.
Ah, i see. Could be that different Gojira’s have different breath attacks (I.E. Dagon had a more electric-like breath), which would be pretty cool.
My friend concluded that Godzilla may not be “as old as the planet”, but he still might be super old,who thrived in Permain Era, and was likely old enough to take part in the Gojira/Kong War.
He probably was, since it’s implied in a wall painting that Mothra fought alongside Goji in the war. Unless that wasn’t our Goji and Mothra but different members of their species
Last edited by Jermobooka on Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Jermobooka wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:17 am I dunno if this has already been stated but the novelization of GvK implies that Godzilla is the only member of his species that can fire the atomic breath, which was granted after absorbing the unique energy in the Hollow Earth. The Iwi described this as "[eating] a star" and "throw[ing] rays of the star from his mouth and burn[ing] things."

I really gotta buy the novelization because the world building and lore of it all is incredibly interesting
The star eating monster from iwi myth refers to Godzilla's kind as a whole

BennettCommando wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:42 am
Jermobooka wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:17 am I dunno if this has already been stated but the novelization of GvK implies that Godzilla is the only member of his species that can fire the atomic breath, which was granted after absorbing the unique energy in the Hollow Earth. The Iwi described this as "[eating] a star" and "throw[ing] rays of the star from his mouth and burn[ing] things."

I really gotta buy the novelization because the world building and lore of it all is incredibly interesting
Well, Dagon held the title “Lord of Lightning”, so I wouldn't say Godzilla is the only one of his kind that can use Atomic Breath. And I remember somebody mentioned before that Zo-zla-halawa might be a plural word that represents Titanus Gojira as a whole, rather than “Godzilla” himself.

Added in 16 minutes 12 seconds:
There is a question that my friend and I are keep discussing about. It was an issue concerning Godzilla's former encounter with a Titanus Kong. My friend believed that Godzilla did encountered the Titanus Kong in Hollow Earth, or a place which was not Skull Island.

The current understanding of the prequel comic, is that Godzilla went to Skull Island at some point, but was forced to retreat due to a Titanus Kong. However, my friend did not agree with that. The narration in the flashback stated that the island he visited was a place he might called home. He thinks that it would not be reasonable if the island was Skull Island, as the event, clearly happened after the Gojira/Kong War,the Kongs would have moved to Skull Island during the time when Godzilla visited the unknown island. And in the final scene of the comic, Godzilla's new lair was apparently located in Hollow Earth, and in his flashback, the Titanus Kong who drove Godzilla away also seemed to be in Hollow Earth. It is implied that the Titanus Kong Skull might be the very guy that drove Godzilla away in the distant past.

My friend concluded that Godzilla may not be “as old as the planet”, but he still might be super old,who thrived in Permain Era, and was likely old enough to take part in the Gojira/Kong War.
The novel states that the defeat of the Kong's was not COMPLETE, so their kind being driven out doesn't make stragglers impossible.

It's also very possible mothra HAS been guiding older Gojiras, given that Godzilla implies the defeat of the Kong's are not from HIS memories.

But let's step back and think about it, we are the collection of our experiences.

Even if Godzilla's body is only a few thousand years old, he's got the experiences of a multi million year old species in him. His soul is basically millions of years old at this point.
Last edited by Showzilla on Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Genetic memory sounds logical to me. If Mothra can have a quasi-supernatural ability, I see little reason Godzilla can't. Could be magical, could be mundane; but the end result is essentially an incarnation cycle. One consciousness, a 'soul' if you will, but multiple lifetimes. Why does Godzilla gun for the MUTOs so quickly? Their kind killed him before. Why is there a dead gigantic Godzilla in the throne room? That was a past incarnation, possibly the 'one' who swallowed that star if the Iwi myth of a singular individual is true and not being metaphor with the species as a whole. Why did Godzilla become the alpha titan? Because by garnered experience, possibly millions of years worth, he gradually power-leveled to reach the top.
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Desghidorah wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:23 pm Genetic memory sounds logical to me. If Mothra can have a quasi-supernatural ability, I see little reason Godzilla can't. Could be magical, could be mundane; but the end result is essentially an incarnation cycle. One consciousness, a 'soul' if you will, but multiple lifetimes. Why does Godzilla gun for the MUTOs so quickly? Their kind killed him before. Why is there a dead gigantic Godzilla in the throne room? That was a past incarnation, possibly the 'one' who swallowed that star if the Iwi myth of a singular individual is true and not being metaphor with the species as a whole. Why did Godzilla become the alpha titan? Because by garnered experience, possibly millions of years worth, he gradually power-leveled to reach the top.
makes ghidorah's title of "the one who is many" a little chilling if all titans are like that.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Desghidorah wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:23 pm Genetic memory sounds logical to me. If Mothra can have a quasi-supernatural ability, I see little reason Godzilla can't. Could be magical, could be mundane; but the end result is essentially an incarnation cycle. One consciousness, a 'soul' if you will, but multiple lifetimes. Why does Godzilla gun for the MUTOs so quickly? Their kind killed him before. Why is there a dead gigantic Godzilla in the throne room? That was a past incarnation, possibly the 'one' who swallowed that star if the Iwi myth of a singular individual is true and not being metaphor with the species as a whole. Why did Godzilla become the alpha titan? Because by garnered experience, possibly millions of years worth, he gradually power-leveled to reach the top.
Well, according to the film, Nathan believed most if not all Titans possessed Genetic Memories,which was the reason they chose to have Kong help them find Hollow Earth Energy.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Showzilla wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:45 pm
Desghidorah wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:23 pm Genetic memory sounds logical to me. If Mothra can have a quasi-supernatural ability, I see little reason Godzilla can't. Could be magical, could be mundane; but the end result is essentially an incarnation cycle. One consciousness, a 'soul' if you will, but multiple lifetimes. Why does Godzilla gun for the MUTOs so quickly? Their kind killed him before. Why is there a dead gigantic Godzilla in the throne room? That was a past incarnation, possibly the 'one' who swallowed that star if the Iwi myth of a singular individual is true and not being metaphor with the species as a whole. Why did Godzilla become the alpha titan? Because by garnered experience, possibly millions of years worth, he gradually power-leveled to reach the top.
makes ghidorah's title of "the one who is many" a little chilling if all titans are like that.
To make an addition, the difference could be while the native Titans do have a sense of genetic memory, there is still some individuality per generation. Ghidorah is multiple individuals stitched together at the same time.
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Genetic memories just mean you can trace your parents and so on up to you conception. Godzilla and Kong for example remember their parents and grandparents memories up to time of conception.
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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miguelnuva wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:43 pm Genetic memories just mean you can trace your parents and so on up to you conception. Godzilla and Kong for example remember their parents and grandparents memories up to time of conception.
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Just saying I got no problems with a mythical twist to Godzilla this go-around. More scientific origins have bee standard since Heisei era and I think having some supernatural bends to the character can work fine.
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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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In about 50 pages (see: Chapter 4) and so far so good — it’s not quite Michael Crichton’s Jurassic Park; still good.

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Re: Godzilla vs Kong novel: The differences between it and the movie

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Yeah Godzilla saving Na Kika and torching the operation would have been a pretty neat opener too.

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