Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Man, Godzilla is an absolute tank lol

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Shadowfyre wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:27 am Can any math whizzes here give an estimate of about how fast Kong and Mecha G are able to move at? I got some more thrashing to do.

If Godzillas tail whip is at mach 1, I'm guessing that Kong and Mecha G consistently move at upwards of 300 mph or better.
Too lazy to do pixel measurements lol, but essentially take the distance, then divide by the time given to travel said distance. Then you'll get your speed/velocity (depending on whether on you're taking into account direction).

Added in 23 minutes 22 seconds:
Thegarbagemonster wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:51 pm Personally, I would've had them fight in NY and Tokyo, with Kong winning in NY and Godzilla in Tokyo. It would be pretty awesome to see them bring it home... maybe in a future film.
Yeah I wish there was a fight either of those locations although I do like Hong Kong since it harkens back to Godzilla vs Destroyah which is a movie I adore. But anyway come to think of it, I wonder when will be the next time we even see Kong fighting in a city if you think about it. Like he's in the Hollow Earth chilling now. I assume he'll just face some rivals there and maybe in like 10 years from now finally actually go to a city for a Destroy All Monsters movie, unless that's in the Hollow Earth too. Kinda sad. I need more Kong city mayhem

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Jermobooka wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:55 pm https://youtu.be/t4PE9k25TEY
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Rando Yaguchi »

Some solid points here.

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Dv-218 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:26 am Yeeeeah you see I don't really share the same sentiment as you on the matter. I do understand where you are coming from in regards to the sense of scale and mass but honestly I feel like there are instances and approaches where you can play around that to make for, imo, more entertaining and intense scenes.
I definitely knew you wouldn't agree. I've seen a lot of people say exactly that, and I rarely understand this point of view. It's just as entertaining to see the sheer destruction and size of these things. Every movement should feel immensely powerful and every impact should be satisfyingly heavy. More intense scenes are possible without sacrificing even an ounce of that. That's what I'm looking for, rather than monsters doing relatively fast moves that don't necessarily fit their bodies or size to be conveyed. I'm watching giant monster movies specifically for the "giant" aspect. It should be easier to achieve all around with the technology of today.

Let's agree to disagree.
Dv-218 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:26 am I honestly didn't think the CGI looked any less convincing than it was before- not too dissimilar to Kong skull island. It's just a different way to tackle the effects and the kaiju, and I have no qualms with it. It was befitting the type of film GvK was aiming to be. Godzilla going feral and ripping into Kong like a giant, angry Crocodile might not necessarily be feasible movement-wise with the size of his, but it's awesome, intense and genuinely makes you understand what a ferocious fighter he can be.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. Sure, the speed isn't entirely dissimilar to K:SI (despite the monsters being around 3.7 times taller), and the renders and models are high quality, but the animation overall is something I'd compare to the climax of Jurassic World or Spider-Man: Homecoming's Washington Monument climbing scene (not in speed, but in animation). Somethings just looked... off. There's a bouncy quality to it. It's unlike the more consistently rigid movement in much of Kong: Skull Island's climax (or any Kong scenes) or Godzilla 2014. Take a look at the way Godzilla stomps on Kong's chest the second time for example. His toes curl upwards as he's stomping down. This adds an exaggerated, almost cartoony feel to it.

You know, let me mention this really quick. Godzilla's dorsal plates get narrower as he raises himself up tall while charging his atomic breath, just before Kong pushes the axe into his mouth. They appear elongated and stretched. Warped. That pose isn't possible without reducing and compromising the rigidity of his dorsal plates, sacrificing the visual quality. They also stretch and bend at other points in the movie, like when Kong is on his back. It's occasionally necessary, but it happens so often here. I've already mentioned his arms before, earlier in this thread. Even his neck has posing issues. His neck articulates at the base or middle, distorting and stretching parts oddly. Specifically after the Tasman Sea battle, as awesome as that shot looked, his neck was stretched very strangely. Arched, and unnatural. Also at the end of the movie, after he roars to get Kong's attention. His neck is stretched like crazy. It's hard to describe, see for yourself. Look at 0:05. https://youtu.be/P1zslOvuK1Y

I'm going to say something I believe most people would disagree with, but to me, Godzilla has steadily looked less visually impressive after 2014 due to stuff like this. Posing and animation has taken a hit. I really think that they don't know exactly how to animate or pose him properly. I'm also sure that nobody is looking at it with this level of scrutiny, but these kinds of things stood out to me on the first viewing.
Dv-218 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:26 am Kong jumping on the carriers and buildings might seem ridiculous on paper but his agility IS the main attrbute and draw he has, so i'd want to see him utilize it. A low level and mass-oriented cinematography works in certain types of monsters films, but I feel like in a movie where the matchup IS the main event and focus you need to have both combatants go all out for the full effect. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree but I needed to take this off my chest. I just really don't care for how such stuff is handled as long as it is well executed and fits the plot, that is all.
Well, it's not just ridiculous on paper. It's visually ridiculous for a fictional creature of his size. He uses the cruiser as a sort of "stepping stone" to jump to the aircraft carrier. He jumps high and falls with his full weight onto that cruiser and effortlessly leaps off. Kong must weigh almost nothing for that to be possible within this series. He wouldn't even shift the aircraft carrier with how light he was on that cruiser. His agility can be displayed without making him nearly weightless. It's like his weight hasn't increased much since he was a juvenile. It's really not about the cinematography for these things in particular. You have to shut your brain off for much of it, as many have said. His weightlessness goes past the agility, too. That scene where Godzilla throws Kong and he slams into the building, not even causing any more than surface damage, just bugs me each time I see it. It's not right. It really doesn't make sense. There's something almost comical about it, like it's slapstick, and that's not good. They don't feel giant at points like that.

And before Jermobooka says anything, no, there's nothing realistic about Godzilla or Kong. But within the world they're set in, they shouldn't break their own set rules. We have context and precedent for how things should work in this series. This movie ignores that context and ignores precedent. And talking about quality, detail, or consistency isn't talking about realism. I'm not gonna give you the chance this time. :)
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Thegarbagemonster wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:51 pm Personally, I would've had them fight in NY and Tokyo, with Kong winning in NY and Godzilla in Tokyo. It would be pretty awesome to see them bring it home... maybe in a future film.
I kept expecting either New York or Tokyo to make an appearance due to their significance in the two franchises.

I remember reading a fake "leak" last year that claimed the film ended with Kong emerging from the hollow earth in New York City and Godzilla emerging in Tokyo. I don't remember the surrounding context of that scene, and I know it wasn't a real leak, but the idea of it has always stuck with me. Something like that would have been a nice homage to the two monsters' roots.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Major sssspielberg! wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:38 pm Kong did hit up Tokyo in KKvG and Escapes, but he didn't smash much.
Ah, right... I have seen those films, I just couldn't remember the locations they were in. :oops: But still, wouldn't it be nice to see in modern times? I really want to see Kong climbing the ESB in modern day, but this time he's just dominating instead of being a little flea on it. Or imagine him in Tokyo using the famous Tokyo Tower's point as a big spear... do you think if Godzilla was in a city and shot his atomic breath down through the concrete and into a sewer, it'd come roaring out of all the manholes nearby like atomic geysers?

Added in 3 minutes 54 seconds:
MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:05 am I'm going to say something I believe most people would disagree with, but to me, Godzilla has steadily looked less visually impressive after 2014 due to stuff like this. Posing and animation has taken a hit. I really think that they don't know exactly how to animate or pose him properly. I'm also sure that nobody is looking at it with this level of scrutiny, but these kinds of things stood out to me on the first viewing.
I kinda feel you on this one, the effects themselves look seriously impressive in terms of detail and things, and there are some seriously beautiful shots of him, but his majesty isn't being captured quite as well. I think two shots from KOTM that do it well are his Antarctic entrance, where it scrolls up his body with his theme playing, and his entrance in Boston. The one of him leering down at the submarine is great as well.

I would've really liked a shot from street level where it pans from Kong to Godzilla at opposite ends of a street, from human view, just like those two posters, if you can remember?
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Jermobooka »

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:05 am fairly constructed points...okay opinions...



...realism???
Wow, talk about unwarranted preemptive attack :(

In all seriousness though, i kid about the whole “realism” thing and find myself agreeing with you on certain things. I personally love the fast paced action of GvK, but i feel like a happy medium would be between G14 and GvK (which KOTM is not) would be the preferable style of the MV. That said, if it does continue with the fast paced style i’ll have no problems

Yeeeaaah, i do agree that that building Kong slammed Goji into should’ve gotten demolished. Certainly get that complaint

I honestly don’t see any problems with the animations or models whatsoever, but you’re the expert, so whadda i know :lol:
Last edited by Jermobooka on Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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I just realized something. Why was the Apex facility in Pensacola? It's not like they have tons of industry or shipping. I think another Gulf City would have made more sense...

...that being Houston, Texas. Sure, Pensacola is much closer to the ocean so Apex's facility would have had to have been near the ship channel. But, Houston has tons of industry, tons of worldwide shipping, and way more people (to be excited that their city is being smashed in the movie) than Pensacola. More importantly, Godzilla in Texas. That is all
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Showzilla »

>speed

Iirc, an animation member for KotM stated Godzilla broke 200mph in his charge BEFORE he built up speed.

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Thegarbagemonster wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:16 am
Ah, right... I have seen those films, I just couldn't remember the locations they were in. :oops: But still, wouldn't it be nice to see in modern times? I really want to see Kong climbing the ESB in modern day, but this time he's just dominating instead of being a little flea on it. Or imagine him in Tokyo using the famous Tokyo Tower's point as a big spear... do you think if Godzilla was in a city and shot his atomic breath down through the concrete and into a sewer, it'd come roaring out of all the manholes nearby like atomic geysers?
Trust me I'm with it 110%. I think if there was the chance this was the end of Godzilla's time in the MV, or even the end of the first cycle of MV films, Tokyo should have been involved. I've been waiting for it since 2014! And it would be really dope to see Godzilla make atomic geysers with the sewer system, it'd probably work well with the tone of the final battle of GvK. Maybe Kong gets a hot sewer lid stuck in his eye :lol:
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Shoopwoop17 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:01 am I just realized something. Why was the Apex facility in Pensacola? It's not like they have tons of industry or shipping. I think another Gulf City would have made more sense...

...that being Houston, Texas. Sure, Pensacola is much closer to the ocean so Apex's facility would have had to have been near the ship channel. But, Houston has tons of industry, tons of worldwide shipping, and way more people (to be excited that their city is being smashed in the movie) than Pensacola. More importantly, Godzilla in Texas. That is all
Apparently, Pensacola is a hub for tech companies on the Gulf Coast and actually markets itself as "Florida's Cyber Coast".

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by ernesth100 »

Anyone else feel kinda bad for MechaG after seeing Kong tear him apart so brutally and he just kinda screams in pain?

Lol, I'm just a sensitive baby sometimes. But all the gut wanted was his revenge. I can't help but think if, and this is a big if, but if it's only Kevin the more docile of the heads, he could be reformed into Moguera or something good.

However that's highly unlikely and it's more factual that the brain contains the consciousness of Ghidorah as a whole. If I'm not wrong I believe it was even started as such in the novel.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Wait until the supposed sequel has King Ghidorah living on in Ren Serizawa which he transferred his consciousness into. One cool idea would be it basically playing out like Naruto and Kurama.

Either that or transferred his consciousness into the internet.

The Loki of the MonsterVerse minus the redemption.

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GodzillaFan1990's wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:39 am The Loki of the MonsterVerse minus the redemption.
If only, however novel statements lead me to believe that they won't do anything with Ren and it was actually just an L on the films part.

I'm slowly coming to terms with that and I'm only hoping they don't Ralph Boner us again and completely waste such a character again.

It makes me so mad too because they gave us Bernies liquor subplot and Madison's relatively meaningless role but couldn't develop a Serizawa?

Come on Legendary I though we were past this.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Showzilla wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:16 am >speed

Iirc, an animation member for KotM stated Godzilla broke 200mph in his charge BEFORE he built up speed.
Thank you. The reason I'm asking is just cause people on another fight forum are claiming Thanos is both stronger and faster.

And I'm so happy the movie is doing so well.
I suppose I am not as well versed in CGI as some of you but it honestly looks better than really anything else I can think of at the moment.

No offense, but it looks a helluva lot better than Shin imo.

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Shadowfyre wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:50 am
Showzilla wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:16 am >speed

Iirc, an animation member for KotM stated Godzilla broke 200mph in his charge BEFORE he built up speed.
Thank you. The reason I'm asking is just cause people on another fight forum are claiming Thanos is both stronger and faster.

And I'm so happy the movie is doing so well.
I suppose I am not as well versed in CGI as some of you but it honestly looks better than really anything else I can think of at the moment.

No offense, but it looks a helluva lot better than Shin imo.
During the animation of Godzilla charging Ghidorah in Boston, there’s a speed tracker that goes up to 350 mph too
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Another way of doing the consciousness thing regarding King Ghidorah is him transferring it into the internet thus living on there. Could eventually lead to something like Mecha-King Ghidorah.

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Does it say Ren died in the novel?
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Thegarbagemonster wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:16 am
MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:05 am I'm going to say something I believe most people would disagree with, but to me, Godzilla has steadily looked less visually impressive after 2014 due to stuff like this. Posing and animation has taken a hit. I really think that they don't know exactly how to animate or pose him properly. I'm also sure that nobody is looking at it with this level of scrutiny, but these kinds of things stood out to me on the first viewing.
I kinda feel you on this one, the effects themselves look seriously impressive in terms of detail and things, and there are some seriously beautiful shots of him, but his majesty isn't being captured quite as well. I think two shots from KOTM that do it well are his Antarctic entrance, where it scrolls up his body with his theme playing, and his entrance in Boston. The one of him leering down at the submarine is great as well.

I would've really liked a shot from street level where it pans from Kong to Godzilla at opposite ends of a street, from human view, just like those two posters, if you can remember?
Absolutely. The effects are very impressive for the most part, especially regarding the details, which are truly amazing in the majority of cases. But, Godzilla overall lacks the same amount of care and attention to detail that he received before, especially regarding his anatomy. He simply and straight up breaks sometimes, or doesn't look quite right, in motion and in stills. Kong doesn't necessarily have this issue in any parts of the movie.

His entrance scene in Antarctica is the best scene within GKOTM besides everything with Rodan's emergence and pursuit. I liked the way his eyes looked as he neared the submarine, although the color filter diminishes the visibility a lot. He's at his most intimidating when he's glaring, or when his eyes are almost hidden by shadows. He is consistently good in 2014.
Image
And you're right. A scene from this sort of angle would have been quite nice. Combined with some people viewing from a building some distance away, maybe helicopter views, extended shots of people running away, and more ground level shots, it would be great. I sort of didn't get the sense that they were in Hong Kong, for whatever reason. Maybe that's just me.

I've been thinking about Pacific Rim's Hong Kong fight, which I've mentioned a couple of times, and how different it looked. Gipsy Danger and Otachi looked relatively massive, all without sacrificing any excitement or intensity in the battle. Godzilla and Kong are around 40 meters taller than either of them, and I didn't get a similar sense from them fighting.
Jermobooka wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:56 am
MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:05 am fairly constructed points...okay opinions...



...realism???
Wow, talk about unwarranted preemptive attack :(

In all seriousness though, i kid about the whole “realism” thing and find myself agreeing with you on certain things. I personally love the fast paced action of GvK, but i feel like a happy medium would be between G14 and GvK (which KOTM is not) would be the preferable style of the MV. That said, if it does continue with the fast paced style i’ll have no problems

Yeeeaaah, i do agree that that building Kong slammed Goji into should’ve gotten demolished. Certainly get that complaint

I honestly don’t see any problems with the animations or models whatsoever, but you’re the expert, so whadda i know :lol:
Thanks for letting me know. I almost felt alone in my opinions at times. I feel like maybe I bother too much with explaining these opinions, though. I like to show everyone what I mean. :lol:
I pick up on some things, even if they seem sort of minor to others.

And exactly, something like a mix of both Godzilla 2014 and Kong: Skull Island would likely be the best way to go with the MonsterVerse in general, including animation, story structure, presentation, etc. I have felt this way since 2017. A balance can be made, but the concern is if such a thing would ever happen. People are very reluctant to acknowledge that those two were perhaps the strongest entries in the MonsterVerse so far.

There are a few times where the lack of destruction really stands out strongly. Here, take a look at 1:40 (almost sounds like a classic Godzilla roar right there) and 1:53: https://youtu.be/a97jXvcPHbU
The buildings barely suffer any damage, especially when Kong is thrown by Godzilla.

And as far as the animation and models are concerned, take a look at this. I mentioned this in my last reply. Godzilla's dorsal plates are being warped in this scene. They look thinner and sharper merely because they're essentially shrinking for him to get into that pose. This isn't that good when combined with the other issues. Image
Earlier, I provided a YouTube link to a clip that shows the dorsal plates on his neck stretching out, creating a strange elongated and gapped look that has never been in any other movie so far. It's at the end of the movie, as he's walking towards Kong after his first roar that scares everyone. This sort of thing is also visible after the Tasman Sea battle, except he's given a strange hump on his neck as well. Look at 2:22 in this video here: https://youtu.be/_Jkz7wZEggU

This has never been an issue before. Not even when Godzilla held his head down. For reference, here's this: Image
The issue seen in GvK is likely because Godzilla's neck is being articulated at the middle, which would doesn't add up with the way he's been animated and posed before. It's a pretty amateurish mistake, and one that pops up pretty often in fan animations. They don't seem to know how to pose him. It bugs me a bit. It's of a lower standard than the previous movies, I'd say.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by _JNavs_ »

Upon charge up in 2014 it was much easier to get him in his reared back bear pose for the atomic breath because his spines weren't huge. Now they are, so they have to angle the spines in a way that lets him get into that pose easily.

I also do not see anything wrong at 2:22 in that video.

Oh and they most certainly know how to pose the big man lol.

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Last edited by _JNavs_ on Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
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