Gareth Edwards' Godzilla II or Mike Dougherty's KOTM?

[Terasawa]

I feel like the people who say things like "KOTM/GFW was just a modern Showa movie" have no idea what Showa movies were even like.

No kidding. If this were the case, the "Showa elitists" here would love those movies.

[Your Boy Leroy]

For me, the issues with the Monsterverse started with K:SI. I hated the attempts at humor, and some shots looked overly gimmicky to me. Kong and the other monsters seemed like they had less weight and were a little floaty. That had as much to do with the cinematography as it did with the actual special effects. But those creatures were also much smaller than any of the monsters in KOTM, so it’s forgivable.

Don’t get me wrong. I still like the movies a lot more than I dislike them. But given how strong G14 was in my mind, I couldn’t help but be disappointed in the direction this “cinematic universe” was going in. Personally, calling KOTM a “modern Showa-era film” is basically me trying to convince myself that the film’s tone and direction is intentional rather than admitting that the studio tried not only correct what they perceived the audience didn’t like about G14, but also look at current Hollywood blockbuster trends and copy them. And for me, the results are mixed.

The fact that this film series is even being called the Monsterverse says it’s trying to do the MCU thing (just like DCEU and the proposed Universal Monster thing), Post-credit scenes, terrible self-aware humor, and an overall air of wanting to please everyone in the audience is what makes K:SI and KOTM just seem a lot less special than G14 was.

[TheInfiniteAeon]

Voted Edwards. He didn't work as a writer for the script and just needs a good screenplay to work his proven skills on. Dougherty tried his hand at screenwriting and it failed and as a director his color choices, editing and style is just inferior compared to Gareth. Give Edwards the monster designs they used in KOTM and he can easily make a better-looking movie.

[Italian G-Fan]

Voted Edwards. He didn't work as a writer for the script and just needs a good screenplay to work his proven skills on. Dougherty tried his hand at screenwriting and it failed and as a director his color choices, editing and style is just inferior compared to Gareth. Give Edwards the monster designs they used in KOTM and he can easily make a better-looking movie.

Not the first time that Dougherty writes a movie. And this baffles me since in the past he wrote actually great movies (like X-men 2). Not saying the writing of KOTM was terrible, but could have been better. Again, the writing could have been better but it’s not even that terrible.
Also nah. Doubt Edwards would make a better-looking movie. With all that darkness and grey it’s almost impossible to see a thing in G2014. In KOTM the color palette is fine, and you can actually see without problems what is happening

[Vakanai]

Voted Edwards. He didn't work as a writer for the script and just needs a good screenplay to work his proven skills on. Dougherty tried his hand at screenwriting and it failed and as a director his color choices, editing and style is just inferior compared to Gareth. Give Edwards the monster designs they used in KOTM and he can easily make a better-looking movie.

Not the first time that Dougherty writes a movie. And this baffles me since in the past he wrote actually great movies (like X-men 2). Not saying the writing of KOTM was terrible, but could have been better. Again, the writing could have been better but it’s not even that terrible.
Also nah. Doubt Edwards would make a better-looking movie. With all that darkness and grey it’s almost impossible to see a thing in G2014. In KOTM the color palette is fine, and you can actually see without problems what is happening

Can anyone say anything positive about 2014 over KOTM or believe that Edwards would have done better and you not post a disagreement? (Don't mean to be aggressive, just a bit annoyed.)

[UltramanGoji]

All the cutaways from the action, keeping most of it for one burst at the end? Did we watch the same movie?

What do the cutaways have to do with the grounded aspect of the movie?

[Italian G-Fan]

Voted Edwards. He didn't work as a writer for the script and just needs a good screenplay to work his proven skills on. Dougherty tried his hand at screenwriting and it failed and as a director his color choices, editing and style is just inferior compared to Gareth. Give Edwards the monster designs they used in KOTM and he can easily make a better-looking movie.

Not the first time that Dougherty writes a movie. And this baffles me since in the past he wrote actually great movies (like X-men 2). Not saying the writing of KOTM was terrible, but could have been better. Again, the writing could have been better but it’s not even that terrible.
Also nah. Doubt Edwards would make a better-looking movie. With all that darkness and grey it’s almost impossible to see a thing in G2014. In KOTM the color palette is fine, and you can actually see without problems what is happening

Can anyone say anything positive about 2014 over KOTM or believe that Edwards would have done better and you not post a disagreement? (Don't mean to be aggressive, just a bit annoyed.)

I mean, I’m just peacefully disagreeing. If I was rude while disagreeing I would understand the annoyance, but I’m not being rude so why being annoyed?

[Vakanai]

Not the first time that Dougherty writes a movie. And this baffles me since in the past he wrote actually great movies (like X-men 2). Not saying the writing of KOTM was terrible, but could have been better. Again, the writing could have been better but it’s not even that terrible.
Also nah. Doubt Edwards would make a better-looking movie. With all that darkness and grey it’s almost impossible to see a thing in G2014. In KOTM the color palette is fine, and you can actually see without problems what is happening

Can anyone say anything positive about 2014 over KOTM or believe that Edwards would have done better and you not post a disagreement? (Don't mean to be aggressive, just a bit annoyed.)

I mean, I’m just peacefully disagreeing. If I was rude while disagreeing I would understand the annoyance, but I’m not being rude so why being annoyed?

It's just the frequency of it, and that you aren't really adding anything new to your opinion I guess. Kind of just restating the same thing. Nothing wrong with it I guess, just kind of takes the fun out of it when there's too many posts like that I guess?

[Italian G-Fan]

Can anyone say anything positive about 2014 over KOTM or believe that Edwards would have done better and you not post a disagreement? (Don't mean to be aggressive, just a bit annoyed.)

I mean, I’m just peacefully disagreeing. If I was rude while disagreeing I would understand the annoyance, but I’m not being rude so why being annoyed?

It's just the frequency of it, and that you aren't really adding anything new to your opinion I guess. Kind of just restating the same thing. Nothing wrong with it I guess, just kind of takes the fun out of it when there's too many posts like that I guess?

Fair enough I guess

[Gonzilla]

All the cutaways from the action, keeping most of it for one burst at the end? Did we watch the same movie?

What do the cutaways have to do with the grounded aspect of the movie?

It seems to manifest in a kind of 'monster fight shame', where the movie is allergic to having fun with the action for too long for fear of losing its realism card.

[UltramanGoji]

It seems to manifest in a kind of 'monster fight shame', where the movie is allergic to having fun with the action for too long for fear of losing its realism card.

That's...not even close to what the cutaways were supposed to envoke. The cutaways were to tease the audience with some spectacle before dropping the big third act action set pieces at the very end. Whether or not they work is up to you but the movie's realistic style is absolutely not ashamed of showing the monsters fight. That's just blatantly incorrect. If they were so afraid of the monster fights harming that realistic aspect, it wouldn't even be in the movie.

[TheInfiniteAeon]

Voted Edwards. He didn't work as a writer for the script and just needs a good screenplay to work his proven skills on. Dougherty tried his hand at screenwriting and it failed and as a director his color choices, editing and style is just inferior compared to Gareth. Give Edwards the monster designs they used in KOTM and he can easily make a better-looking movie.

Not the first time that Dougherty writes a movie. And this baffles me since in the past he wrote actually great movies (like X-men 2). Not saying the writing of KOTM was terrible, but could have been better. Again, the writing could have been better but it’s not even that terrible.
Also nah. Doubt Edwards would make a better-looking movie. With all that darkness and grey it’s almost impossible to see a thing in G2014. In KOTM the color palette is fine, and you can actually see without problems what is happening

I'm certain that KOTM's writing is that terrible. I was in denial of how bad it really was for a while but even during that period I admitted to myself that there were just flaws so glaring that I could not ignore them in my first viewing, for instance the Antarctica base sequence. Saying "it could've been done better" isn't really a defense of its writing quality, you could say that to the script of any bad movie.

I don't like Dougherty's monochromatic scenes. I should've said this instead, but the worst part is the excessive particle effects; the snow, rain, smoke and dust just hide the great modelling and texturing done on the monsters. The night scenes of G2014 are actually pretty damn good, I consider them better than KOTM because they don't have the aforementioned excessive particles. The Bluray transfers are the ones with the crap brightness, it made me regret buying my Bluray copy on day one. I don't know if you're aware but there's someone on youtube who has rebrightened the movie and it brings it a lot closer to how it looked in theaters.

[Italian G-Fan]

Voted Edwards. He didn't work as a writer for the script and just needs a good screenplay to work his proven skills on. Dougherty tried his hand at screenwriting and it failed and as a director his color choices, editing and style is just inferior compared to Gareth. Give Edwards the monster designs they used in KOTM and he can easily make a better-looking movie.

Not the first time that Dougherty writes a movie. And this baffles me since in the past he wrote actually great movies (like X-men 2). Not saying the writing of KOTM was terrible, but could have been better. Again, the writing could have been better but it’s not even that terrible.
Also nah. Doubt Edwards would make a better-looking movie. With all that darkness and grey it’s almost impossible to see a thing in G2014. In KOTM the color palette is fine, and you can actually see without problems what is happening

I'm certain that KOTM's writing is that terrible. I was in denial of how bad it really was for a while but even during that period I admitted to myself that there were just flaws so glaring that I could not ignore them in my first viewing, for instance the Antarctica base sequence. Saying "it could've been done better" isn't really a defense of its writing quality, you could say that to the script of any bad movie.

I don't like Dougherty's monochromatic scenes. I should've said this instead, but the worst part is the excessive particle effects; the snow, rain, smoke and dust just hide the great modelling and texturing done on the monsters. The night scenes of G2014 are actually pretty damn good, I consider them better than KOTM because they don't have the aforementioned excessive particles. The Bluray transfers are the ones with the crap brightness, it made me regret buying my Bluray copy on day one. I don't know if you're aware but there's someone on youtube who has rebrightened the movie and it brings it a lot closer to how it looked in theaters.

Nah, it wasn’t that terrible. The writing could have been better, but it isn’t that terrible also. At least it’s an improvement from 2014’s writing
The particle effects aren’t as annoying as the complete darkness of Godzilla 2014. Because while the particle effects hide the texturing of the monsters you are still able to see them and also see and understand what is happening unlike in 2014 where the complete darkness just made impossible to understand a single thing of what was happening. When I’ve watched Godzilla 2014 in theaters it was just as dark as the home video version: night scenes complete dark and almost impossible to see. The people who have watched the movie with me at the theater complained about the same problem.

[Your Boy Leroy]

This review KOTM sums up my thoughts perfectly: https://readysteadycut.com/2019/06/04/g ... rs-review/

Again, not saying that KOTM is a bad film. I just don’t think it was as good as G14 and I really would’ve wanted to see Edwards’ take on a sequel.

[Italian G-Fan]

This review KOTM sums up my thoughts perfectly: https://readysteadycut.com/2019/06/04/g ... rs-review/

Again, not saying that KOTM is a bad film. I just don’t think it was as good as G14 and I really would’ve wanted to see Edwards’ take on a sequel.

If I had a nickel for every time someone said they monsters have weight and felt huge’ while trying to defend Godzilla 2014 to disfavor of KOTM I would be millionaire at this point. Because this review use this sentence... a lot.
‘I lost the impression of his hugeness that all Godzilla movies need in order to work’
Not trying to be rude, but has the one who made the the review watched most of the Godzilla movies? Where Godzilla doesn’t have any hugeness and moves so fast that would make Flash feel jealous? And yet they worked just fine?
Again, not trying to sound rude, but this review just seems... Idk... terrible I guess? I’ve seen negative reviews of KOTM which made valid points while criticizing KOTM, but this review just seems like a compilation of nitpicks

[Your Boy Leroy]

Even if the reviewer hasn’t reviewed any of the previous Godzilla films, would it even matter? He compares the special effects from KOTM to G14 and finds them inferior. It’s not gospel, just an opinion that I agree with. And the review presents nothing but valid criticisms of the film, explaining why he feels the way he does about certain aspects (his comments about the writing are what piqued my interest the most).

You seem to love KOTM and that’s totally, totally fine. I wish I liked it as much you do. Nobody is trying to prove you wrong about the film. But you seem to be getting defensive about it when there’s no need to do so. Relax man. It’s just a movie. People are allowed to like what they want to like, and dislike what they want to dislike.

[tbeasley]

It's a moot point to even discuss because who knows what kind of film Edwards would have made. When it comes down to it it seems G2014 was a case of too little for audiences while KOTM was too much too late (5 years between movies not helping).

It's interesting to see though how the MV films seem to mirror the tonal shift of the Heisei films -

Return of Godzilla/G2014 - Smaller scale, grounded, moody, all new themes, both anniversary films (30th and 60th)
Biollante/KOTM - Larger scale, monster fights, more sci-fi/fantasy, return of classic themes, released 5 years later
King Ghidorah/vs Kong - Bigger and nuttier than ever (And that's me not knowing any spoilers), released 2 years later

[Troyal1]

What would’ve been the difference though? The Brody family instead of Russell’s?

A lot. The story would have been entirely different. The scale and weight of the monsters would have been far superior. No horrendous monochromatic color filters. No cringy dialogue and poor attempts at jokes. Probably less monster fighting, but what we would have gotten would have been better than KOTM. So, uh...yeah, if it wasn't obvious, I voted for Gareth Edwards

This, a million times this

[KingKong2005]

What would’ve been the difference though? The Brody family instead of Russell’s?

A lot. The story would have been entirely different. The scale and weight of the monsters would have been far superior. No horrendous monochromatic color filters. No cringy dialogue and poor attempts at jokes. Probably less monster fighting, but what we would have gotten would have been better than KOTM. So, uh...yeah, if it wasn't obvious, I voted for Gareth Edwards

This, a million times this

I mean, 2014 was the appetizer and 2019 should have been the main course. I'm sure Gareth would show he has learned from the criticisms of the first film. More monster action? Check. Better characters? Hopefully check. Less cutaways? Check. Same way it looks like Godzilla Vs Kong is learning from G14, same with even K:SI.

Dougherty cut away FAR too often, with a film full of plot holes (I mean really, watch this awesome series breaking KOTM down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUWrr2h ... sqmSr_HZfE) and honestly bad vfx and terrible fights. The fights man. We're literally there for the fights. Give us GOOD fights at least, and surprise us with amazing characters who are memorable and likeable! That's how it should be and that's probably what Gareth would have done, while also maintaining weight and scale yet getting a bit more creative with his shots like in K:SI. Excellent CGI yet impact.

[DynomikeGojira]

I'm mixed on this I personally think that Gareth made a better film and his sequel would've probably been better than Mike's so I definitely lean towards Edwards especially with the tone but despite not being a fan of KOTM there are several elements that I like or love mainly Bear's score and this may be an unpopular opinion but I am a fan of Kyle Chandler performance he's my favorite protagonist in the Monsterverse and I love how mythic Mike made the Titans and gave each a distinct personality so it's hard for me to hypothetically sacrifice does elements but if it meant that it could help the film and possibly allow to be more successful than I'd say it's worth it.