Errors in the Continuity

[NBG2]

Whether in a particular film, comic or in this part of the franchise as a whole, and since Legendary said the comics were canon, name any continuity errors or plot holes in the timeline. To start off with, I can name a couple involving Castle Bravo:

In the Awakening comic, they said the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki woke up Godzilla and Castle Bravo was just an attempt to kill him as he fought the Shinomura.

In 2014, they said Nautilus woke him up, and he leisurely surfaces as the nuke detonates. They say “the bomb we used on it in 1954...” in one line of dialogue, even though they said “nuclear bomb tests in the South Pacific weren’t tests. They were trying to kill him.”

This line of dialogue was mirrored in Kong: Skull Island, by Randa. So was it a singular bomb or multiple?

Even more confusing is that in Skull Island: Birth of Kong, they show on a map that Godzilla was nuked two other times. Historically, those tests lasted from 1947 to 1962, and not just by the United States.

And finally, in KOTM, Serizawa retcons that the tests were a coverup and says in the Senate Hearing, “It was our atomic testing that awoke Gojira.” So which is it? One bomb or three? Three tests from 1954 or multiple from a 15 year period? The nuclear sub or Hiroshima? It feels to me like they retcon events with every new addition to this timeline, in a borderline Transformers level. Even more frustrating is that there are no hints in 2014 of Godzilla using the Hollow Earth to travel. Sure there was the time when he eventually outpaced the military but they mentioned right before he surfaces in San Francisco that he was spotted off the coast of an island chain and would be there within the hour. Also, with Godzilla as a character, we know now that he can hold his own in a fight against Ghidorah even at a base level of power, if he can run like that in Antarctica because of his raw, seething hatred for Ghidorah, and show levels of strength to toss Ghidorah like a rag doll, he should’ve disposed of the MUTOs easily, I feel.

Any other continuity errors I missed? Any you’d like to share? Discuss.

[HannibalBarca]

In terms of scene-to-scene continuity, during the Ice Base gunfight in KOTM, Charles Dance is holding a pistol in one shot, and then when Colonel Foster is aiming at him, he's holding an assault rifle. Pretty sloppy, and the editing of the gunfight is mostly incomprehensible in general.

[ReiwaGodzilla]

Godzilla doesn't show the ability to throw Ghidorah like a ragdoll in his base form, just in his overcharged form, that explains why he didn't do that against MUTOs

[NBG2]

Godzilla doesn't show the ability to throw Ghidorah like a ragdoll in his base form, just in his overcharged form, that explains why he didn't do that against MUTOs

I’ll pretend that he didn’t run in at Ghidorah and threw one of his heads down into the ice then.

[Moogabunga]

Godzilla doesn't show the ability to throw Ghidorah like a ragdoll in his base form, just in his overcharged form, that explains why he didn't do that against MUTOs

I’ll pretend that he didn’t run in at Ghidorah and threw one of his heads down into the ice then.

I will say this is probably one of the things that I have very mixed feelings of how it was handled - the power levels of Ghidorah and Godzilla. On one hand, I love that Godzilla can easily hold his own one on one against Ghidorah. They were basically equal rivals. He really didn't NEED any help until after he is dropped from the atmosphere. And I do love me some ultra powerful, badass Big G. But on the other hand, it kind of diminishes the threat of Ghidorah. In Antarctica, it's basically an equal fight. They both get some shots in. You could argue that Ghidorah slightly gets the better of Godzilla after he pushes him into the ice, but then when Godzilla gets back, Ghidorah immediately flees. Then in their second fight, there is no denying that Godzilla wins - not even close. You even have Dougherty saying that Godzilla would have killed him had it not have been for the Oxygen Destroyer. Even if you ignore Dougherty's comments and just watch the scene, I don't see how anyone could come away with Ghidorah won that exchange. It's plain as day. Then Godzilla is revived (and charged, more powerful) with the entire air fleet of support...it doesn't ever feel like it's gonna be a challenge for Godzilla and co....it just seems like this is gonna be pretty easy.


What they should have done is probably make the Antartica fight a little more in Ghidorah's favor and don't have him fly off (or just not have Godzilla get back up - Just have Ghidorah blast Godzilla under the ice and then fly off.) And the second fight should have started on land and then moved to the ocean.

*Little side note* They really missed the ball with Ghidorah not doing any substantial destruction. Antarctica is completely isolated, then he's just in the ocean, and then he destroys a completely evacuated Boston (Fenway Park mostly)

[Gawdziller1954]

I made a thread about this already, can we merge?

[ReiwaGodzilla]

Godzilla doesn't show the ability to throw Ghidorah like a ragdoll in his base form, just in his overcharged form, that explains why he didn't do that against MUTOs

I’ll pretend that he didn’t run in at Ghidorah and threw one of his heads down into the ice then.

I will say this is probably one of the things that I have very mixed feelings of how it was handled - the power levels of Ghidorah and Godzilla. On one hand, I love that Godzilla can easily hold his own one on one against Ghidorah. They were basically equal rivals. He really didn't NEED any help until after he is dropped from the atmosphere. And I do love me some ultra powerful, badass Big G. But on the other hand, it kind of diminishes the threat of Ghidorah. In Antarctica, it's basically an equal fight. They both get some shots in. You could argue that Ghidorah slightly gets the better of Godzilla after he pushes him into the ice, but then when Godzilla gets back, Ghidorah immediately flees. Then in their second fight, there is no denying that Godzilla wins - not even close. You even have Dougherty saying that Godzilla would have killed him had it not have been for the Oxygen Destroyer. Even if you ignore Dougherty's comments and just watch the scene, I don't see how anyone could come away with Ghidorah won that exchange. It's plain as day. Then Godzilla is revived (and charged, more powerful) with the entire air fleet of support...it doesn't ever feel like it's gonna be a challenge for Godzilla and co....it just seems like this is gonna be pretty easy.


What they should have done is probably make the Antartica fight a little more in Ghidorah's favor and don't have him fly off (or just not have Godzilla get back up - Just have Ghidorah blast Godzilla under the ice and then fly off.) And the second fight should have started on land and then moved to the ocean.

*Little side note* They really missed the ball with Ghidorah not doing any substantial destruction. Antarctica is completely isolated, then he's just in the ocean, and then he destroys a completely evacuated Boston (Fenway Park mostly)

I don't know if it fits here, but Dougherty contradicted himself when he said that Godzilla could kill Ghidorah if it wasn't because of the OD

[ReiwaGodzilla]

Godzilla doesn't show the ability to throw Ghidorah like a ragdoll in his base form, just in his overcharged form, that explains why he didn't do that against MUTOs

I’ll pretend that he didn’t run in at Ghidorah and threw one of his heads down into the ice then.

I don't think throw is the perfect word for describing it, "push" would've been better.

Added in 10 minutes 44 seconds:

Godzilla doesn't show the ability to throw Ghidorah like a ragdoll in his base form, just in his overcharged form, that explains why he didn't do that against MUTOs

I’ll pretend that he didn’t run in at Ghidorah and threw one of his heads down into the ice then.

I will say this is probably one of the things that I have very mixed feelings of how it was handled - the power levels of Ghidorah and Godzilla. On one hand, I love that Godzilla can easily hold his own one on one against Ghidorah. They were basically equal rivals. He really didn't NEED any help until after he is dropped from the atmosphere. And I do love me some ultra powerful, badass Big G. But on the other hand, it kind of diminishes the threat of Ghidorah. In Antarctica, it's basically an equal fight. They both get some shots in. You could argue that Ghidorah slightly gets the better of Godzilla after he pushes him into the ice, but then when Godzilla gets back, Ghidorah immediately flees. Then in their second fight, there is no denying that Godzilla wins - not even close. You even have Dougherty saying that Godzilla would have killed him had it not have been for the Oxygen Destroyer. Even if you ignore Dougherty's comments and just watch the scene, I don't see how anyone could come away with Ghidorah won that exchange. It's plain as day. Then Godzilla is revived (and charged, more powerful) with the entire air fleet of support...it doesn't ever feel like it's gonna be a challenge for Godzilla and co....it just seems like this is gonna be pretty easy.


What they should have done is probably make the Antartica fight a little more in Ghidorah's favor and don't have him fly off (or just not have Godzilla get back up - Just have Ghidorah blast Godzilla under the ice and then fly off.) And the second fight should have started on land and then moved to the ocean.

*Little side note* They really missed the ball with Ghidorah not doing any substantial destruction. Antarctica is completely isolated, then he's just in the ocean, and then he destroys a completely evacuated Boston (Fenway Park mostly)

I like that it's pretty equal, Ghidorah won the first round in Antarctica and flew away in the second (dumb, but understandable, i don't want to see them fight in Antarctica the whole movie, also, i question the existence of a second round), Godzilla definitely won in Mexico, i don't think someone would even disagree, then Ghidorah won the first round in Boston because he became supercharged making Godzilla damaged or something like that and then Burning Godzilla appeared in the second round and Ghidorah died, Godzilla wins.

[DrBreakfastMachine]

I thought the idea was meant to be that Godzilla is in his own element when he's in the water and thus has "home-field advantage" so to speak. He had the upper hand on Ghidorah when they both in the water, but had to struggle more against Ghidorah when they fought on the ice, and when he fought the MUTOs in California.

This how they're going to spin Godzilla vs. Kong as a fair fight, I almost guarantee it. They'll have to fight on land Kong won't just get torn to pieces like a chimp that fell into a pond with a crocodile.

[NBG2]

Ping, to bump an old thread:
https://twitter.com/GodzillaWiki/status ... 0704717830

[Chrispy_G]

My take on the comics/bombings inconsistencies
The way I see it, the comics, although deemed "canon" are on a lower tier of canon for me, fun little explorations that can add some details and layers, but ultimately don't really "count". So I'm willing to hand-wave off anything in them.

But what exactly is the terrible consistency here? Is it semantics over whether or not the sub woke Godzilla up, or the bombs woke Godzilla up?

Considering the testing went for years, could the initial test have woken him up, but the 'sub traveling to the lower depths' be what officially 'discovered' him and the further tests were attempts to kill him? I don't see how the nuance of how these things are worded make a dramatic difference.

Also...when dealing with secret government organizations...you can always assume that there are all levels of different tiers of "the official story", "the true story", "what those on the inside know" and "what those on the inside are permitted to disclose"

What was assumed, or what was the 'truth' in the 50s may have been warped over time. I'm sure it would be convenient for a military op to "justify" reckless tests with "well we were trying to kill this monster"...what Randa knew or thought he knew and what he was willing to tell someone in the 70s might have evolved into something very different by 2014 regarding what Serizawa and Graham knew and were willing to tell Ford. Plus there is always room that they were giving a 'short and sweet' explanation to Ford to catch him up to speed....when the behind the scenes reality may have been more complex.

My take on the Ghidorah power scaling
I don't see this as Dragon Ball Z style power levels where this character is at 1000 and another is at 900 so the 1000 always wins or always has the advantage.

In reality, we see professional boxers and mixed martial artists rematch all the time and get very different outcomes. Sometimes opponents can seem easily matched, sometimes someone can be getting wrecked for 10+ minutes and win it all at the last second with the right strike or submission. It is not simple math with a factual arithmetic outcome.

In the animal kingdom, there is footage of a polar bear turning a walrus into bloody scraps, and there is footage where a walrus stabs a polar bear with its tusks, and the bear immediately retreats and bleeds to death.

I tend to think of all of the titans being generally capable of killing one another, like how many animals are. When they battle it doesn't always go the same way every time. Even if Godzilla is typically the most dominant of them, it doesn't mean everything is a cake walk and that many titans can't challenge him in a lot of ways.

The Mutos nesting in a Godzilla corpse shows they are perfectly capable of killing that species. Godzilla was recently awakened, possibly drained of nuclear energy, and battling two of them. The EMP energy also dampened his blast, and he was seen at least one time being directly stopped from blasting the female by the male flying in. Plenty of ways to see how they could get the advantage on him.

Against Ghidorah in the arctic they seemed quite easily matched. In the water, Godzilla took Ghidorah by surprise and in the animal kingdom we have seen that sometimes the first surprise blow is all one animal needs to get the mortal advantage over another.

Plus generally, Ghidorah is a unique matchup. Having 3 heads is an advantage, but lacking any actual arms is likely a disadvantage in some ways. A mouth cannot do all of the same things a claw with digits might be able to do.

At the end Godzilla was super-charged, but Ghidorah was also completely ready and got a power-boost at one point as well. There is also the possibility that Godzilla was a bit 'unstable' from being overloaded with so much power.

There are a LOT of variables that go into any battle between any combatants. It isn't always a clear cut 'this one is stronger/better so the other can't win or put up a fight'

[king_ghidorah]

How big is the Argo supposed to be? I feel like the sizes of Rodan and KG in relation to the Argo fluctuate widely. Ospreys are able to be housed in the Argo it has to be pretty damned big. Bigger than. Football stadium at least.


And yet.

Rodan’s claws seem to almost dwarf it even though just a few moments before, his claw seems to snuggly wrap around the considerably smaller F 22.

Kaiju sizes always have cheat moments in films but this seems to be one of the most glaring examples in recent memory for me.

So between this stuff, and the moment where Godzilla teleports behind KG to slam him into a building it really feels like there wasn’t a strong steady hand at the helm when it came to the monster stuff in the film sadly

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

If you ask me if its not in the films it doesn't count.

[BlankAccount]

Changing Skull Island's location between K:SI and G:KOTM. It is such a pointless change that not doing it would have have been less of an issue. As others have pointed out while the original location was far enough from the Pacific Conflicts that it makes it a stretch that Hank Marlow and Gunpei Ikari would be fighting near it, at least it could be a stretch. The new location is on the other side of the world. Was the point to make Kong be closer to the the U.S. for when he fights Godzilla? It's a monster movie, dude can swim for days when real life gorillas would sink like a rock and we can time skip, most kaiju films don't happen in the span of one day (though it can feel like it in some cases). I just UGH. I'm a filthy casual as a Kong fan goes but I always found that chain of islands fascinating, it's like a character in itself more so than any past version of Monster Island has been (to the point I think it will become the MV Monster Island) so naturally this bugs me.

I can at least brush off Dr. Vivienne Graham saying MONARCH was made in the 50s when the comics say the 40s as MONARCH being unofficial in 40s but official though still top secret in the 50s after having earned the right to be properly funded. Heck I can brush off Randa having to beg for funding from people not authorized to know monsters are real as MONARCH not having found anything like Godzilla in decades and the government starting to believe it was just a one time freak incident till Skull Island proved them wrong. Brooks not believing in monsters till he reached Skull Island can be brushed off for the same reason, dude wasn't there when Goji got nuked.