Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by SoggyNoodles2016 »

Grievous wrote:Does anyone else think Orga is worthy of another film appearance?

I don't why...but I really like the concept of an adaptive alien sampling
DNA to make itself capable of surviving on & taking over Earth.
honestly? Orga's probably the best choice for a alien kaiju in the Monsterverse.

His origins are the most believable, he's got interesting powers, is associated with one of the few Japanese films the. GA are aware of, you can do the alien invaders and alien plot with him, and there's this element of tragedy to him that would be a lot of fun to see explored.

so, yeah. I say Orga would make a great fit there.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:Honestly? Orga's probably the best choice for a alien kaiju in the Monsterverse.

His origins are the most believable, he's got interesting powers, is associated with one of the few Japanese films the. GA are aware of, you can do the alien invaders and alien plot with him, and there's this element of tragedy to him that would be a lot of fun to see explored.

so, yeah. I say Orga would make a great fit there.
That's a fair call...

:thumbsup:

And the idea of Orga/aliens raiding a Monarch facility & combining
DNA from samples, fossils & corpses would be really creepy to see.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by JAGzilla »

'Tragic' is a word I've never seen associated with Orga before. He spent his whole movie destroying and plundering with no visible qualms, even doing things like shooting down helicopters for no reason. And his elaborate, showoffy piloting style implied a lot of cocky attitude. He just came across as a jerk that deserved exactly what he got.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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JAGzilla wrote:'Tragic' is a word I've never seen associated with Orga before. He spent his whole movie destroying and plundering with no visible qualms, even doing things like shooting down helicopters for no reason. And his elaborate, showoffy piloting style implied a lot of cocky attitude. He just came across as a jerk that deserved exactly what he got.
I don't think people see the UFO/Millenians as tragic, per se- but Orga, the resulting creation, as a tragic figure because of the horrible mutation that he underwent. He tried to become a new Godzilla, but it all went horribly wrong, leaving him in a twisted, mutated body that was leagues from the creature he wanted to be- and possibly, some think from his howls, in considerable pain. That's not to say he isn't a villain- but he's still seen (by some) as a tragic villain for the form that his machinations trapped him in.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by mikelcho »

I recently saw Godzilla 2000: Millennium (the Japanese edition) on Sony's Blu-ray and I must say that I loved it!

Call me a purist if you like, but I just love seeing Japanese daikaiju films and TV shows exactly as they were meant to be seen-in their entirety, with nothing added and nothing taken out. This would've been inconceivable to me when I was a kid.

I noticed, however, that it was subtitled and not dubtitled; as an example, two of Katagiri's most famous lines, "I'll send flowers" and "Looks like I'll have to send more flowers", which I remember from the American version when I saw it in a theater, were totally different in the Japanese version. The only mistake that they made in the subtitles that I could see was in calling the G-cell by the name "Regenerator G-1", instead of "Organizer G-1", which was what the characters were clearly saying in Japanese (and which, IIRC, is the term from which Orga got his name from). Ah well, nothing's perfect.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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mikelcho wrote:I recently saw Godzilla 2000: Millennium (the Japanese edition) on Sony's Blu-ray and I must say that I loved it!

Call me a purist if you like, but I just love seeing Japanese daikaiju films and TV shows exactly as they were meant to be seen-in their entirety, with nothing added and nothing taken out.
Purist?

I wouldn't say that.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to see a film in its "original" form.

:thumbsup:
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Zarm wrote:
I don't think people see the UFO/Millenians as tragic, per se- but Orga, the resulting creation, as a tragic figure because of the horrible mutation that he underwent. He tried to become a new Godzilla, but it all went horribly wrong, leaving him in a twisted, mutated body that was leagues from the creature he wanted to be- and possibly, some think from his howls, in considerable pain. That's not to say he isn't a villain- but he's still seen (by some) as a tragic villain for the form that his machinations trapped him in.
I somehow missed this post when it first went up. Weird.

Anyway, that's much more understandable, but not at all the way I ever interpreted Orga's reaction to his new form. I always took for granted that he knew what he was doing, expected a halfway finished body based on the amount of Regenerator G1 he'd absorbed, and had just banked on being able to finish the job more efficiently (and maybe satisfyingly) in physical combat than in his ship.

It's been a few years since I've seen the movie, though. I'll have to look at it from this alterative angle next time.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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So, I rewatched the original Japanese dub of this movie a few days ago, and whilst I still maintain that the American version is the superior one between the two, the conversation at the end is vastly superior and makes so much more sense in the Japanese dub. Instead of being a bit cheesy, the end sequence is a lot more atmospheric and somber in the latter, ending the film on a very bittersweet note.

The whole, “Godzilla is inside each one of us”, line is much more poignant in the Japanese version. I audibly went, “holy shit”, when the film ended because I hadn’t watched the original dub in ages, and had completely forgotten about how differently set up the ending was from the American version.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Jeff-Goldblum2 »

What does the line "Godzilla is inside each one of us" supposed to mean?

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Jeff-Goldblum2 wrote:What does the line " inside each one of us" supposed to mean?
Ask Bill Cosby the same question and you'll get your answer.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Jeff-Goldblum2 wrote:What does the line "Godzilla is inside each one of us" supposed to mean?
It's an attempt to directly translate the Japanese line there. Which, based on the subtitles on the Sony DVD, I take to mean something along the lines of, "As scientists, the responsibility for Godzilla lies with each one of us."

In essence, because the gains in knowledge and the atomic bomb that science made possible was the kind of thing that birthed Godzilla, everyone in the field that has done that kind of research or benefited from the research done in the past has a small share in the responsibility of those whose reckless use of science created Godzilla.

But it kind of loses that context in the English rendering. :)
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Godzilla165 »

Like Zarm said, the Japanese dub of that line makes a lot more sense and adds weight to the scene; the whole sequence is more powerful than its English counterpart. It’s one of the very few instances where I prefer the original Japanese version of a scene in 2000 to the English one.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Jeff-Goldblum2 »

Just reading the English translation of the Japanese version of the line makes 10,000 times more sense.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Zarm wrote:
Jeff-Goldblum2 wrote:What does the line "Godzilla is inside each one of us" supposed to mean?
It's an attempt to directly translate the Japanese line there. Which, based on the subtitles on the Sony DVD, I take to mean something along the lines of, "As scientists, the responsibility for Godzilla lies with each one of us."

In essence, because the gains in knowledge and the atomic bomb that science made possible was the kind of thing that birthed Godzilla, everyone in the field that has done that kind of research or benefited from the research done in the past has a small share in the responsibility of those whose reckless use of science created Godzilla.

But it kind of loses that context in the English rendering. :)
Just watched it again, and with my moderate understanding of Japanese I wanted to add something:

Glasses guy says,”omae wa naze arawanderu?” Or “Why did you appear.

Right before Shinoda says those lines, Ichinose, the female character, says,”Humans gave birth to Godzilla” or something along those lines. I believe the subs make it created, which also works, but the idea and sentiment in that scene makes sense.

“gojira wa oretachi naka ni ireunda”.

Okay, so anyways, I watched the film and I noticed some things I never noticed, which makes the film more interesting:

-It’s subtle, but the CCI, are not originally looking for the ship. They are there to essentially probe the geothermal vents to see if a new source of energy can be made. It’s very relevant, because in a strange roundabout way, the milennian now also works as a foil to Godzilla who presumably is caused by humanities nuclear/energy consumption.

-Something that might be me reaching, is that the Millenian ship...might be a reference to King Ghidorah? The scene where they discover the ship, is similar to the sub scene in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah, where they discover Ghidorah’s head. Additionally, for like a few seconds, you can hear a harp theme. Ghidorah In 91 was accompanied by a harp. Additionally, similar to Ghidorah in GTTHM, both monsters are from space, locked in some sort of meteorite/ship, that has unusual effects on the world around them.

-The bombs used to blow up the building, were originally intended to be used on Godzilla in the middle of the film. Again it’s easy to miss, but the plan was to detonate them if Godzilla got too close to the reactor, make him fall over and then kill him. It was always sort of weird how they had these random special bombs ready to blow up orga but they had them right away.

-The millenians, are made of gas/liquid. Actually, I can’t 100% confirm it, but it’s the theory put forward by Shinoda and is visually confirmed. Basically, they’re gaseous creatures that can come together in a liquid form....I think. It’s why when they drain Godzilla of info, they’re transparent. It’s also why they before the tentacles appear, you can’t see them extending from the ship. The film sort of alludes to this, but it’s also why they desire a physical form in that of Godzilla.

-I never realized how much of a threat The Millenians were. It’s not really something that’s emphasized, and it’s easy to miss, but the millenian ship was in the process of changing Tokyo to suit their needs. When Shinoda is in the building, he covers his mouth to protect his breathing. The millenians were sending some strange tentacles/apparatus throughout the city to terraform the city to their needs. The millenian ship could also theoretically disable all communication and other nasty things. The film doesn’t really build the ship up as some world ending catastrophe, but it totally was.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote:Okay, so anyways, I watched the film and I noticed some things I never noticed, which makes the film more interesting
People like to endlessly praise the Mike Schlesinger version of Godzilla 2000 'cause it's supposedly "the version Toho prefers".

Sure, some of the visual and audio editing help the film, but did they really need to needlessly jettison so much helpful exposition?
You get a more polished post-production feel at the expense of a coherent story.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Space Hunter M wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:Okay, so anyways, I watched the film and I noticed some things I never noticed, which makes the film more interesting
People like to endlessly praise the Mike Schlesinger version of Godzilla 2000 'cause it's supposedly "the version Toho prefers".

Sure, some of the visual and audio editing help the film, but did they really need to needlessly jettison so much helpful exposition?
You get a more polished post-production feel at the expense of a coherent story.
Yeah, I don’t get it now.

I prefer Orga’s roar in the Japanese version, because yes while less threatening, it fits the weirdness of the monster well and sounds a little tragic. Additionally, orga makes some strange clicks, that might be it communicating or controlling the UFO.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Terasawa »

I understand the removal of the Millennium subplot. That stuff was instantly dated on 1/1/2000. I wonder if the other simplifications were done to tailor the film to an American audience that expects a very basic monster vs. monster story from a Godzilla film.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Yeah, I don’t get it now.

I prefer Orga’s roar in the Japanese version, because yes while less threatening, it fits the weirdness of the monster well and sounds a little tragic. Additionally, orga makes some strange clicks, that might be it communicating or controlling the UFO.
Yeah, bits like that... There's a lot of subtlety that was also steamrolled out of the Schlesinger cut.

Some of the sound design in the Toho cut is weaker, but a lot of it is a lot more atmospheric and doesn't bludgeon you over the head.

Added in 2 minutes 6 seconds:
Terasawa wrote:I understand the removal of the Millennium subplot. That stuff was instantly dated on 1/1/2000. I wonder if the other simplifications were done to tailor the film to an American audience that expects a very basic monster vs. monster story from a Godzilla film.
They were also working with the export dub as the skeleton of the looping script, and only resorting to the Japanese when something seemed really out of place, so that's probably another factor in the telephone game-y style of writing some parts of the Schlesinger cut has.

I wonder why they cut out the "oxygen content" bit though. In the commentary, Mike and the others are about to talk about it, but the recording suddenly cuts.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Space Hunter M wrote:Some of the sound design in the Toho cut is weaker, but a lot of it is a lot more atmospheric and doesn't bludgeon you over the head.
Your use of the phrase "bludgeon you over the head" immediately made me think of that terrible comedy music cue they inserted in the scene where the guy keeps getting whacked in the noggin.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

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Terasawa wrote:I understand the removal of the Millennium subplot. That stuff was instantly dated on 1/1/2000. I wonder if the other simplifications were done to tailor the film to an American audience that expects a very basic monster vs. monster story from a Godzilla film.
I disagree as overeliance on technology and the risk of cyber circuity is still a big issue. The film definitely could have done more with that though.

Another cool detail I noticed, is just how awesome and well designed the Millenian ship, the Millenian and Orga all are...together(not separately). When the Millenian ship lands on the tower, and extends its tentacles downwards, there’s a screenshot that shows that if the UFO was the” head”, the body would be the tower, and then the tentacles extending outwards. In other words the Millenians design is sort of hinted at before its unveiled.

I also realized on this viewing how much I wish the UFO and Millenian came back, in addition to Orga. Half of the fight is really Godzilla versus the UFO, who actually with the tentacles has a decent grip on Godzilla. The Millenian prior to becoming Orga is actually one of the most unique monsters in the franchise.

Also I realized how quality wise this film is varied on cinematography. When Godzilla attacks Nemuro, there’s some really fantastic lighting, that give Godzilla this really ominous feeling similar to G54.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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