Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

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Ivo-goji
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Ivo-goji »

Now that we're up to our necks in alternative takes on Godzilla, each of them more different than the last, I can't help but wonder how it would have been if Toho continued the Kiryu saga instead of ending the Millennium series. Potentially a return to a Showa-esque world but with a re-occurring cast of characters and a larger narrative arc revolving around the Mechagodzilla concept... it could have gone nowhere, or it could have succeeded in keeping the franchise alive between 2004 and 2014. Whether it would have been better that way I guess depends on whether you see the Millennium series as a failed experiment or the logical outcome of where the kaiju genre had been going all that time.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Ivo-goji wrote:Now that we're up to our necks in alternative takes on Godzilla, each of them more different than the last, I can't help but wonder how it would have been if Toho continued the Kiryu saga instead of ending the Millennium series. Potentially a return to a Showa-esque world but with a re-occurring cast of characters and a larger narrative arc revolving around the Mechagodzilla concept... it could have gone nowhere, or it could have succeeded in keeping the franchise alive between 2004 and 2014. Whether it would have been better that way I guess depends on whether you see the Millennium series as a failed experiment or the logical outcome of where the kaiju genre had been going all that time.
For all intensive purposes, the Kiryu Saga is part of the showa series. Yes, obviously it wasn’t made during the same time frame, but it referenced a lot of showa events in the extra continuity. Plus Gaira and Kameobas.obciouky there weren’t aliens or DAM. Despite the hate, the Kiryu saga would’ve provided a really easy jumping board for the series to return to the showa era, as long as it sorta gets over its militaristic hype and changeD the focus. The obvious is Having Kiryu fight monsters other than Godzilla, and introducing aliens for Kiryu and Godzilla to fight.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Ivo-goji »

It would have been more interesting if they stuck to the formula of introducing Earth based kaiju from the Showa series without resorting to aliens. Titanosaurus would have fit right in with the Kiiryu saga's aesthetic.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Panther10 »

I've heard a lot of people describe the Kiryu-Goji suit as kind of a millennial equivalent to the Heisei Godzilla suits, but I can't be the only who feels that there are a lot of infuences to the Mosu-Gogi and Ghido-Goji (1964) Godzilla suits, can I? I mean the fact that the Kiryu-Goji suit has the slender bell shaped body, the arrangement of the spines, the narrow head with the slightly offset cloudy looking eyes and pronounced eyebrows, and finally the long serpentine-esque tail it just seems like it borrows many elements from the suits used in Mothra vs. Godzilla and Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster. In fact from some angles it practically screams the 64 suit.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Mr_Goji_and_Watch »

Panther10 wrote:I've heard a lot of people describe the Kiryu-Goji suit as kind of a millennial equivalent to the Heisei Godzilla suits, but I can't be the only who feels that there are a lot of infuences to the Mosu-Gogi and Ghido-Goji (1964) Godzilla suits, can I? I mean the fact that the Kiryu-Goji suit has the slender bell shaped body, the arrangement of the spines, the narrow head with the slightly offset cloudy looking eyes and pronounced eyebrows, and finally the long serpentine-esque tail it just seems like it borrows many elements from the suits used in Mothra vs. Godzilla and Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster. In fact from some angles it practically screams the 64 suit.
Yeah, I was looking at some pics of the suit this morning and it really does have a bit of a 64 vibe.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by PitchBlackProgress »

I assume the place where Godzilla and the Masers fight in the beginning is the same place where Gaira fought the Masers in War of the Gargantuas?
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Godzillian »

PitchBlackProgress wrote:I assume the place where Godzilla and the Masers fight in the beginning is the same place where Gaira fought the Masers in War of the Gargantuas?
Probably not
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by PitchBlackProgress »

Godzillian wrote:
PitchBlackProgress wrote:I assume the place where Godzilla and the Masers fight in the beginning is the same place where Gaira fought the Masers in War of the Gargantuas?
Probably not
Huh, I see. Well it was a decent enough nod at least, I quickly recognized the parallels when I watched the film for the first time last night.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Dr.Cgad »

it's good unless it the english dub.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by kamilleblu »

Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla is a vast improvement over the previous film featuring the iconic mechanical doppelganger and its director's own initial foray into the series. The film boasts another awesome score by Michiru Oshima, features a fantastic update on MechaGodzilla's design that's a close second to the original incarnation, and handles military fetishism better than the 90s Heisei Godzilla films ever did. Actually, Masaaki Tezuka seems a more competent director than his Heisei counterparts. Unfortunately, it's largely letdown by a stale human narrative in which only the lead character manages to impress and effects that look surprisingly artificial much of the time. I find Tokyo SOS to have the more engaging human leads and the better action. Speaking of which, both of these films could have been merged into a single, more effective feature. Remove Mothra, condense the mundane human narrative, by the 2nd act have Akane come to the realization MechaGodzilla doesn't want to fight, and wrap everything up with the climax of the sequel.
Last edited by kamilleblu on Wed May 09, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by SonOfGorgo »

kamilleblu wrote:Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla is a vast improvement over the previous film featuring the iconic mechanical doppelganger and its director's own initial foray into the series. The film boasts another awesome score by Michiru Oshima, features a fantastic update on MechaGodzilla's design that's a close second to the original incarnation, and handles military fetishism better than the 90s Heisei Godzilla films ever did. Actually, Masaaki Tezuka seems a more competent director than his Heisei counterparts. Unfortunately, it's largely letdown by a stale human narrative in which only the lead character manages to impress and effects that look surprisingly artificial much of the time. I find Tokyo SOS to have the more engaging human leads and the better action. Speaking of which, both of these films could have been merged into a single, more effective feature. Remove Mothra, condense the mundane human narrative, by the 2nd act have Akane come to the realization MechaGodzilla doesn't want to fight, and wrap everything up with the climax of the sequel.
Previous film? As in GMK?

Otherwise though, I agree. I wish Tezuka got the chance continue from there. Heck, I even wish he made this as a sequel of sorts to his Megaguirus film instead.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Maritonic »

SonOfGorgo wrote:
kamilleblu wrote:Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla is a vast improvement over the previous film featuring the iconic mechanical doppelganger and its director's own initial foray into the series. The film boasts another awesome score by Michiru Oshima, features a fantastic update on MechaGodzilla's design that's a close second to the original incarnation, and handles military fetishism better than the 90s Heisei Godzilla films ever did. Actually, Masaaki Tezuka seems a more competent director than his Heisei counterparts. Unfortunately, it's largely letdown by a stale human narrative in which only the lead character manages to impress and effects that look surprisingly artificial much of the time. I find Tokyo SOS to have the more engaging human leads and the better action. Speaking of which, both of these films could have been merged into a single, more effective feature. Remove Mothra, condense the mundane human narrative, by the 2nd act have Akane come to the realization MechaGodzilla doesn't want to fight, and wrap everything up with the climax of the sequel.
Previous film? As in GMK?

Otherwise though, I agree. I wish Tezuka got the chance continue from there. Heck, I even wish he made this as a sequel of sorts to his Megaguirus film instead.
I believe the intention was to say it was better than the previous film featuring Mechagodzilla, meaning Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by kamilleblu »

Maritonic wrote:I believe the intention was to say it was better than the previous film featuring Mechagodzilla, meaning Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II.
Yeah. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by SonOfGorgo »

kamilleblu wrote:Yeah. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Oh okay. The previous Mechagodzilla film.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by jackzilla »

To me one of the best parts of this film is the theme. The Godzilla theme in this movie is friggin awesome. It's one of the best Godzilla film themes for sure. Also, I friggin LOVE this shot. Also, I do have my own personal ranking of all the Godzilla films, and this is my sixth favorite.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

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jackzilla wrote:To me one of the best parts of this film is the theme. The Godzilla theme in this movie is friggin awesome. It's one of the best Godzilla film themes for sure. Also, I friggin LOVE this shot. Also, I do have my own personal ranking of all the Godzilla films, and this is my sixth favorite.
I agree. This is, for me, the Godzilla theme of the Millenium series- the definitive one. And the films is also very similar in my rankings to yours.
Last edited by Zarm on Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by KillCrites »

jackzilla wrote:To me one of the best parts of this film is the theme. The Godzilla theme in this movie is friggin awesome. It's one of the best Godzilla film themes for sure. Also, I friggin LOVE this shot. Also, I do have my own personal ranking of all the Godzilla films, and this is my sixth favorite.
This movie's entire score is great, it's one of my favorites in the whole franchise.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Zarm »

My only criticism is that they play Kiryu's theme-march maybe one too many times. :) It starts to get a little comical, for me. But it's still a great theme/score.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by Maritonic »

Zarm wrote:My only criticism is that they play Kiryu's theme-march maybe one too many times. :) It starts to get a little comical, for me. But it's still a great theme/score.
Glad someone else believes this.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (2002)

Post by kamilleblu »

It seems that Tezuka gets a great deal of hate around here and I find that a little puzzling. Is he any worse than Takao Okawara or Kazuki Omori? The direction of the bulk of the modern Godzilla films is usually nothing more than competent at best. Of all of the post-Showa films, only Shusuke Kaneko and Hideaki Anno have brought anything of actual value to the table in the directing department.

What about the characters? Aren't the casts of these films better than those of Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla II and Godzilla vs Destoroyah. And aren't the monster battles of Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S. more dynamic and engaging than anything in the latter Heisei films?

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