Page 3 of 4

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:06 am
by Kaltes-Herzeleid
Godzilla has always been at least implicitly connected to the supernatural. In the original film and Shin Godzilla his name comes from a God worshiped by the people of Odo Island. And his presentation certainly lives up to something divine rather than scientific, in spite of Yamane's theories. He appears on land after a ritualistic ceremony performed by the islanders, in a raging typhoon no less, and hunts down and kills the one person who survived his first encounter with him. Whether intentionally or not. He shrugs off all military grade weaponry and, in at least the sub version of the film I have, Yamane describes Godzilla as having been "baptized" in the hellfires of the atomic bomb and that his existence is basically unnatural. Godzilla has always defied science even when they attempt to scientifically explain him.

When Godzilla first makes landfall in Shin Godzilla it is accompanied by a theme that is literally a prayer for a mercy that cannot and will not come. And yes there's a lot of science talk, but again, Godzilla's presence in the film is treated with the sense of being confronted by some sort of nigh incomprehensible eldritch god and the film literally ends with him creating life in his image.

And then you have films like Godzilla Vs. Biollante, Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla and Tokyo S.O.S. making it absolutely nice and sparkling clear that souls and ghosts exist.

Then of course you have Mothra, who's always been overtly divine. King Ghidorah certainly defies scientific explanation in basically every sense. I highly doubt that a being that emerges in the form of an ethereal blaze of fire from a meteorite doesn't have some connection to the metaphysical.

Hell, even Legendary's Godzilla films get this right. Yeah yeah the 2014 movie has some babble about an "ancient alpha predator who feeds off radiation" but he's clearly presented as something far more than that. His first appearance is even accompanied by the Requiem theme associated heavily with 2001: A Space Odyssey, and from it's most metaphysical moments no less.

KotM goes full on with religious and spiritual symbology. Mark's story is essentially the story of a man regaining his faith in God, or at least in benevolent divinity. Mothra shines her light from the sky (i.e. the Heavens), Rodan emerges from a smoldering volcano like a demon. And King Ghidorah, well, what and who he represents should be obvious. They literally included excerpts from the Heart Sutra in his theme for fuck's sake.

And this is all just off the top of my head and limited solely to Godzilla, not even getting into Gamera or Ultraman or other kaiju and toku films and series.

The symbology has always been there, movies that go full force with it aren't inserting anything that wasn't already there.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:18 pm
by GodzillaXGomoraFight
Well said Kaltes. I always felt that there has always been some theme of mysticism or the fantastic within Godzilla films beyond say films with Mothra or GMK. I think it is one thing that I find very appealing when watching these movies. I still stand by my previous opinion that GMK might be the best Godzilla film post-Showa regardless of the fantastic elements being in your face in this movie compared to others. It does face competition from other films previously mentioned, but GMK always has a special place for me.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:36 pm
by edgaguirus
The mystic elements work well with the movie, but it also has a theme of faith and family that help make this a great film. The love between father and daughter is strongly felt, especially towards the end.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:35 pm
by tbeasley
I think it's important to note, while controlled by the spirits, Godzilla is still a flesh and blood creature deriving power from radiation, and this is the main reason why humanity can temporarily defeat him (be it by Oxygen Destroyer or D3 missile). Of course, what would really do the trick is Japan acknowledging its past atrocities, but you can only do so much.

So he's still the type of creature Yamane theorized about, he's not literally made up of spirits, he's not a ghost or a zombie. The spirits are just introduced as a concept to explain how and why Godzilla goes after the heart of Japan (Tokyo) and that place only, both past (54) and present (GMK).

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:13 pm
by Terasawa
tbeasley wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:35 pm I think it's important to note, while controlled by the spirits, Godzilla is still a flesh and blood creature deriving power from radiation, and this is the main reason why humanity can temporarily defeat him (be it by Oxygen Destroyer or D3 missile). Of course, what would really do the trick is Japan acknowledging its past atrocities, but you can only do so much.

So he's still the type of creature Yamane theorized about, he's not literally made up of spirits, he's not a ghost or a zombie.
That's correct, that's pretty much exactly how Professor Isayama explains it to Yuri.
The spirits are just introduced as a concept to explain how and why Godzilla goes after the heart of Japan (Tokyo) and that place only, both past (54) and present (GMK).
I don't think that's the case for '54, I don't think anyone in GMK or even its filmmakers is making that implication.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:31 pm
by eabaker
Terasawa wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:13 pm
The spirits are just introduced as a concept to explain how and why Godzilla goes after the heart of Japan (Tokyo) and that place only, both past (54) and present (GMK).
I don't think that's the case for '54, I don't think anyone in GMK or even its filmmakers is making that implication.
Although the idea does have roots in critical/scholarly analysis of the original '54 (not that I can remember the name of the critic/scholar in question or anything...)

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:11 pm
by tbeasley
I'm under the impression he was always possessed in the GMK timeline, that he always had the white-eyed look and design. Note you don't see him in the flashback and hear the Millennium roar, and the 54 design in never seen in photographs or stock footage.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:35 am
by Breakdown
Gave this a re-watch last night and it still holds up pretty well despite some of the reservations I have with certain plot elements (Ghidorah being a hero, for example). The GMK suit is probably among my favorites now, but the one thing that keeps it from achieving perfection is that the seam where the spines are removed so the suit actor can get inside are painfully obvious in almost every shot of the suit from behind. I dunno how they managed to screw that up when literally every other Godzilla suit was able to hide that seam. The soundtrack is also,.....out there. People give GvsB's soundtrack a hard time for being out-of-place, but GMK's sometimes doesn't even sound like it belongs in a Godzilla movie.

On a more real-world note; the movie's central theme is remembering and accepting the tragedies of the past..are there really people in Japan who adamantly deny some of the atrocities in WW2 ever happened? Despite the hordes of documented evidence, footage, etc? Even in the film, there's one woman who literally says Godzilla is only a legend despite hard documented scientific evidence that such a creature existed. How do you flat-out deny an event that thousands of people witnessed or participated in?

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:15 am
by MogeGoji1994
Breakdown wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:35 am

On a more real-world note; the movie's central theme is remembering and accepting the tragedies of the past..are there really people in Japan who adamantly deny some of the atrocities in WW2 ever happened? Despite the hordes of documented evidence, footage, etc? Even in the film, there's one woman who literally says Godzilla is only a legend despite hard documented scientific evidence that such a creature existed. How do you flat-out deny an event that thousands of people witnessed or participated in?
yeah it still happens today. someone please correct me if im wrong, but japan didn't acknowledge the existence of unit 731 for like 50 years, and even then, they didn't apologize for it. and I don't think they ever apologized for South korea. I could be wrong about all this though, so forgive me

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:53 am
by JAGzilla
Breakdown wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:35 am On a more real-world note; the movie's central theme is remembering and accepting the tragedies of the past..are there really people in Japan who adamantly deny some of the atrocities in WW2 ever happened? Despite the hordes of documented evidence, footage, etc? Even in the film, there's one woman who literally says Godzilla is only a legend despite hard documented scientific evidence that such a creature existed. How do you flat-out deny an event that thousands of people witnessed or participated in?
Look how many people we have denying Covid today, or waving Trump Won flags, or claiming Australia doesn't exist. If it's not convenient to their worldview, some people will deny anything, especially when it's something deeply shameful like barbaric war crimes or horrifyingly out of the ordinary like a giant radioactive dinosaur torching Tokyo.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:48 pm
by edgaguirus
And it's also interesting that the guardian monsters aren't even defending man. The trio are defending the land. Baragon and Mothra show no pity to the callous humans who wreck ancient statues and try to kill innocent dogs but do fight Godzilla as he is a threat to Japan itself. In the end, it takes the efforts of man and nature, in the form of kaiju, to finally stop Godzilla.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:08 pm
by Voyager
Breakdown wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:35 am

On a more real-world note; the movie's central theme is remembering and accepting the tragedies of the past..are there really people in Japan who adamantly deny some of the atrocities in WW2 ever happened? Despite the hordes of documented evidence, footage, etc? Even in the film, there's one woman who literally says Godzilla is only a legend despite hard documented scientific evidence that such a creature existed. How do you flat-out deny an event that thousands of people witnessed or participated in?
Quite a lot, actually.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:32 pm
by LegendZilla
Good news. After much consideration, very soon, I've decided to give this film a re-watch for the first time in years. I intend to watch it through a more wise and mature perspective.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 10:11 am
by Amp87
The only thing GMK has going for it is it was to this day the most profitable of all the Millennium series, that's about it.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 pm
by HedorahIsBestGirl
Amp87 wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 10:11 am The only thing GMK has going for it is it was to this day the most profitable of all the Millennium series, that's about it.
Yeah you're right, fuck GMK's thematic depth, engaging and well-paced story, interesting human characters, great special effects, rocking music, cool '54-inspired Godzilla redesign, well-structured action scenes, and fantastic reinvention and usage of Baragon. :Baragon:

Thank Godzilla that its box office returns were slightly less pathetic than the other Millennium movies, GMK really has nothing else going for it!

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 1:41 pm
by Gojira18
It's definitely Top 3 next to Shin and 1954.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 2:05 pm
by Legion1979
Gojira18 wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:41 pm It's definitely Top 3 next to Shin and 1954.
It's the best of the Millennium series, but I wouldn't go that far.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 4:46 pm
by Spuro
It's also one of the top three best films in the series for me, just behind the original 1954 film and Mothra vs Godzilla. I'd say it's a better, more consistent film than Shin, LPG, or anything in the Heisei series.

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 4:55 pm
by Gigantis
HedorahIsBestGirl wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 pm Thank Godzilla that its box office returns were slightly less pathetic than the other Millennium movies,
Dude, I get what you're trying to say, but this does not sound like a compliment. :lol:

Re: GMK: Best Post-Showa Godzilla Film?

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 5:11 pm
by HedorahIsBestGirl
Gigantis wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 4:55 pm
HedorahIsBestGirl wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:33 pm Thank Godzilla that its box office returns were slightly less pathetic than the other Millennium movies,
Dude, I get what you're trying to say, but this does not sound like a compliment. :lol:
It's not intended as one. I love GMK and I like the Millennium series, but franchise-revitalizing hits they were certainly not. GMK grossed twice as much as most of the others but it still was a far cry from the profits of most of the Showa and Heisei movies.

Added in 2 minutes 6 seconds:
Spuro wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 4:46 pm It's also one of the top three best films in the series for me, just behind the original 1954 film and Mothra vs Godzilla. I'd say it's a better, more consistent film than Shin, LPG, or anything in the Heisei series.
100% agree on this. Shin Godzilla and Return of Godzilla round out my top five.