Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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HedorahIsBestGirl
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

GojiDog wrote:I was never a fan of the Millennium series approach of "Each movie is a standalone story".

The tight knit continuity was one of the strengths of the Heisei series, which felt like a comic book come to life at times with its evolving story and past events causing new ones two or three films down the road.

And even though the continuity was far more loose in the old days, the Showa series did have some nice little beats to connect the films together, and I felt like Godzilla got a full character arc all the way through the series too.

The problem with the Millennium films is that there is a lot of time wasted on exposition: What is Godzilla, when did he first show up, what is the status on the war with Godzilla, and when will he return, etc. How many times can I have Godzilla's status explained to me in a row? Oddly enough, G2K, the first film in the series is one of the only ones that avoids this by straight up treating Godzilla as already established and not explaining anything, which I kind of liked actually. Even if it wasn't the case officially, I guess it kind of allowed me to pretend that the G2K Godzilla is Godzilla Junior from the Heisei Timeline and this is his adventure.

But when you look at G2K, GXM, GMK, and GXMG all in a row, it is a bit jarring to have 4 completely different timelines and 4 different wars and methods of dealing with Godzilla. I guess it works as kind of a "choose your own adventure" format with 1954 being the only constant, and then the directors and writers can put their own spin on it, and the fans can latch onto the one that fits their personality the most.

However, I appreciate films in a series to follow at least some kind of continuity, and the constant restart button was growing tiresome. I remember being sick to death of it by the time GXMG was coming out, and when I heard Tokyo SOS was actually going to be a direct sequel, I breathed a sigh of relief. It doesn't help that alot of these movies ended on cliffhangers that could have led to sequels: Godzilla is still alive in G2K and could go on defending Earth against terrible monsters, Godzilla survived the Dimension Tide in GXM and will have to be dealt with again, Godzilla's beating heart is shown at the end of GMK, signifying that he may return, and Tokyo SOS had a cryptic post credit scene hinting at monster DNA experiments. The fact that none of these cliffhangers were even attempted to be followed up on is disappointing.
I think continuity, or the lack thereof, is the single biggest problem with the post-Showa Godzilla series.

To be honest, I don't like the close continuity of the Heisei films because it isn't utilized well. Other than Miki as a recurring character, Junior growing up during the last three movies and MKG being used to build Mechagodzilla, what good really came of the close continuity? Sure, Space Godzilla tried to make connections to Biollante and Mothra, but they felt like a forced effort to make fans like a badly written film. Stylistically, tonally and thematically, I think the Heisei films were limited by trying to fit in the same tight-knit continuity. They're honestly pretty bland, by and large. I think I would like the Heisei series a lot better if it had a looser, Showa-esq approach to continuity to allow for more creative freedom by individual writers and directors.

But then there's the total lack of continuity in the Millennium series, and I agree that rewriting Godzilla's history again and again gets old fast. I think, for the first three films, this worked okay. To me, the problem starts with GXMG. The film basically feels like a remake of Megaguirus, so much so that I'd rather have it be a sequel to Megaguirus than the fourth new beginning in a row. To address the title of this thread, I don't think G2K and Megaguirus belong in the same universe, but I think this might've worked well for Megaguirus, GXMG and Tokyo SOS. With some narrative reworking, we could have had a proper trilogy in the midst of the Millennium series. Instead, for the second half of the Millennium series, we got a bland retread of Megaguirus, an even blander sequel to that film, and then yet another movie with no connections to anything before it.

I'd also love to have seen a sequel to GMK, if it was done well and saw Kaneko return, which he didn't want to because Toho was so controlling. This year at G-Fest, I got to speak with Kaneko and told him how much I loved his films and wanted to see him helm another kaiju project. Later, he commented that many fans had told him this and may consider doing another Godzilla movie. Here's hoping (and hoping that Toho gives him free reign this time). :D

TL;DR - close but underutilized Heisei continuity bad; lack of continuity in Millennium also bad; 3 Tazuka films could have been trilogy; GMK good
Last edited by HedorahIsBestGirl on Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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DrBreakfastMachine
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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I've always thought that G2K, GxM and the Kiryu films could and should have been a single continuity with only GMK and FW as the odd ones out.

Whatever little continuity differences there are are ultimately pretty irrelevant to the main plots and could have been altered without changing much. If you assume that the original Godzilla died via oxygen destroyer in 1954 and everything else has been a second Godzilla, realistically nothing in G2K or GxM changes that much. The Kiryu films also gain virtually nothing by roping so many non-Godzilla Showa films into their canon, so that could be left out too. Even Mothra could have just been introduced as being new to that universe instead of tying back into the original Showa film, which most audiences in 2003 had likely never even seen.

Lots of strange creative choices made in the Millennium series IMO. They never actually benefitted from the zero-continuity decision in my mind.

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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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I'm annoyed because there is nothing drastically different between Godzilla 2000, GVM Godzilla and the Godzilla vs. Kiryu Godzilla in terms of the character to justify them being different characters. Least GMK Godzilla has a standout design, personality & make up that makes it different enough to justify its own existence in a separate continuity.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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Even if there are no significant reasons for them to be different continuities (although a few people here have made some strong arguments for why there are significant reasons), I certainly don't see any significant reasons for them to be part of the same continuity.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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eabaker wrote:Even if there are no significant reasons for them to be different continuities (although a few people here have made some strong arguments for why there are significant reasons), I certainly don't see any significant reasons for them to be part of the same continuity.
For me it is because it always felt the plot reset back to 0 and nothing ever progressed forward. It kept going back to the "sequel to the original ignoring anything else" thing until Tokyo SOS which just got repetitive.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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That was the plan all along.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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godjacob wrote:
eabaker wrote:Even if there are no significant reasons for them to be different continuities (although a few people here have made some strong arguments for why there are significant reasons), I certainly don't see any significant reasons for them to be part of the same continuity.
For me it is because it always felt the plot reset back to 0 and nothing ever progressed forward. It kept going back to the "sequel to the original ignoring anything else" thing until Tokyo SOS which just got repetitive.
I don't see how placing those movies in the same timeline would meaningfully alter their stories.

Sure, the plot kept resetting to 0, but that's where the majority of all stories ever told start out. What matters is where they go from there.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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eabaker wrote:
godjacob wrote:
eabaker wrote:Even if there are no significant reasons for them to be different continuities (although a few people here have made some strong arguments for why there are significant reasons), I certainly don't see any significant reasons for them to be part of the same continuity.
For me it is because it always felt the plot reset back to 0 and nothing ever progressed forward. It kept going back to the "sequel to the original ignoring anything else" thing until Tokyo SOS which just got repetitive.
I don't see how placing those movies in the same timeline would meaningfully alter their stories.

Sure, the plot kept resetting to 0, but that's where the majority of all stories ever told start out. What matters is where they go from there.
Even Godzilla 2000/GVM have severe differences to the Kiryu Saga. The Kiryu Saga implies that monsters are periodically attacking Japan. That's important to justifying the creation of Kiryu a big flashy weapon. Compare the military strength of Godzilla 2000 and GvM to that. Sure the Dimension Tide is outlandish, but for what it is, it seems realistic.

If I had to guess, probably another reason why the continuity was seperate was to justify why they couldn't reuse the Godzilla killing device from the previous film, unlike the Heisei version. Why not just use the ANEB again? Why not just use the G-Crusher System again? Why is Mothra suddenly absent? Why can't Godzilla be radio controlled with birds? Of course there's contrived excuses and retcons that can be used, but having separate continuities allows for more freedom of not worrying about past plot points.

And I'm noticing people not talking about GFW, GMK, and G2000 which are all so stylistically different from each other it does justify the original different continuity premise.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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I think the separate plotlines gave the Millennium series a pretty unique approach, though I really didn't like Final Wars.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

Post by KingKaiju »

I never understood Toho's reasoning to have each film being separate. As far as I can tell, GxM, GxMG, and GMMG should be a trilogy. But, it is what it is. The Millenium series was interesting.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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Mostly this makes me think of how badly the Millennium series overall failed in actually creating distinct takes on Godzilla. Four of the six films depict Godzilla in exactly the same way.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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Ivo-goji wrote:Mostly this makes me think of how badly the Millennium series overall failed in actually creating distinct takes on Godzilla. Four of the six films depict Godzilla in exactly the same way.
You mean four slightly different variations of the same basic suit, right?

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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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Ivo-goji wrote:Mostly this makes me think of how badly the Millennium series overall failed in actually creating distinct takes on Godzilla. Four of the six films depict Godzilla in exactly the same way.
Do you mean in terms of appearance? Because it seems that criticism could apply to any Godzilla series. 1999,2001,2002, and 2004 suits provide a good amount of variation in my eyes.

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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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Ivo-goji wrote:Mostly this makes me think of how badly the Millennium series overall failed in actually creating distinct takes on Godzilla. Four of the six films depict Godzilla in exactly the same way.
Well the Kiryu films are sequels so that really shouldn't be held against them. G2000 and Godzilla vs. Megaguirus? Yeaaaah kinda but i think the latter is a bit more destructive. Final Wars Goji is a lot more of a juggernaut if that's who your trying to say.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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mikelcho wrote:
Ivo-goji wrote:Mostly this makes me think of how badly the Millennium series overall failed in actually creating distinct takes on Godzilla. Four of the six films depict Godzilla in exactly the same way.
You mean four slightly different variations of the same basic suit, right?
shadowgigan wrote:
Ivo-goji wrote:Mostly this makes me think of how badly the Millennium series overall failed in actually creating distinct takes on Godzilla. Four of the six films depict Godzilla in exactly the same way.
Do you mean in terms of appearance? Because it seems that criticism could apply to any Godzilla series. 1999,2001,2002, and 2004 suits provide a good amount of variation in my eyes.
No, I don't mean the suit, I mean Godzilla's personality.

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tyrantgoji wrote:
Ivo-goji wrote:Mostly this makes me think of how badly the Millennium series overall failed in actually creating distinct takes on Godzilla. Four of the six films depict Godzilla in exactly the same way.
Well the Kiryu films are sequels so that really shouldn't be held against them. G2000 and Godzilla vs. Megaguirus? Yeaaaah kinda but i think the latter is a bit more destructive. Final Wars Goji is a lot more of a juggernaut if that's who your trying to say.
The Kiryu saga didn't add anything meaningful to Godzilla's characterization except making him slighty more sympathetic than he was in G2000 and VsMegaguirus, otherwise all of those films followed pretty much exactly the same formula for his behavior and how he's viewed by the human cast.

GMK was the only Millennium series movie with a genuinely original take on Godzilla that we hadn't seen before, and Final Wars was more of homage to different aspects of Showa and Heisei Godzilla.
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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

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Ok, I understand your point now. I would agree with that statement. It's like they weren't sure what to do with the character but felt compelled to use t.

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Re: Does anyone else question why G2k and Megaguirus aren't one continuity

Post by tbeasley »

I remember reading Toho went the anthology route for the Millennium films because it was sometimes hard to sell the Heisei films overseas due to the continuity film to film. So they abandoned that and the first film they did (G2K) got the first US theatrical release since G85.

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