Toho Kingdom

tyrantgoji wrote:I also believe that the modern day Godzilla is Kiryu's son. Just makes sense,you don't wanna kill your own son.

I always liked this idea, I think Tomiyama and Tezuka should've gone with it in the films instead of a passing mention in an interview.

That American Godzilla 2000 sequel happens except with Godzilla being cloned after killed. Presumed dead then revived like in Kotm is more to my liking. Since the new enemy monster was described to be fiery or lava like, I imagine it being basically a smaller Monsterverse Rodan.

-2000 has had years of Godzilla fighting other monsters. Just makes the ending more resonant if its them reflecting on years of Godzilla

-Megaguirus created 2000 Godzilla. The Dimension Tide sent him to the 2000 universe's 1954 and set off his world (this is also why no one can figure out Godzilla in 2000. He LITERALLY has a universally different biology).

-in contrast, the Godzilla heard in the ending isn't the one they spent the whole movie getting rid of, but a brand new one from another universe transplanted there. Guess who you're favorite is.

- Anguirus, Varan and Kamacuras are all mystical monsters who also exist in the GMKverse.

- Same for the "tons of off screen monster encounters" as the 2000 one.

- Mothra changes her mind on the whole "kill everybody for making Kiryu" plan because of wishy washy promises to Chujo in the veign of "Never shall I send another flood"

- every other Showa monster is off screen in Final Wars.
They also get killed off screen by Godzilla.







Except Jet Jaguar, Godzilla spared him and he went on to become the post-apocalyptic world leader of both human and kaiju.

After the Kiryu/Mothra/Godzilla battle of 2004, three new creatures are being created: Moguera, Mechani-Kong, and Biollante

The oxygen destroyer created a time portal thingy, which explains all the different continuities (especially the one off natures of the millennium films).

Every toy that appears in that one scene in Final Wars is based off a real monster in the continuity.

Godzilla 2000 is a sequel to Godzilla vs Biollante. In the 11 years since that film, lack of nuclear energy, side effects of the ANEB, and Godzilla's adaptive nature are the cause of his smaller size and different appearance.

In that same time-frame, Godzilla's appearances have been so rare that the giant military apparatus, over the course of a decade, has been significantly eroded and restructured.

^I guess that's plausible, but it's still weird to think of the world of G2000 as a place where things like the Super X and the Psychic Research Institute exist.

Ivo-goji wrote:^I guess that's plausible, but it's still weird to think of the world of G2000 as a place where things like the Super X and the Psychic Research Institute exist.

Definitely....and the 11 year gap in the timeline is the only nebulous area where, in theory, anything could have happened to shrink things down. If Godzilla wrecked it all one too many time, maybe there was no hope for a reboot....if you have little mom-and-pops style organizations like the GPN springing up....you can infer that it was almost to fill a vacuum left by some of those larger government organizations.

There are more monsters in the continuities of Godzilla 2000, Megaguirus and GMK other than the ones that were seen on screen. After all, in GMK, Taizo Tachibana did say that "there have been numerous sightings in various countries". So we know that Godzilla, Baragon, Mothra and King Ghidorah aren't the only monsters in the GMK continuity. As for G2K and vs Megaguirus, if a giant radioactive reptilian monster and a giant dragonfly-like monster can exist, then certainly more monsters are out there. Maybe Anguirus, Rodan, Varan and Mothra?

Godzilla 2000 is not a stand alone movie despite it not making any references to any previous movie. It is another sequel to Godzilla (1954).

Godzilla (1998) is not canon with GMK. It just so happens that a monster that resembles Godzilla appeared in the United States a few years before the events in GMK happened. The subtitles didn't mentioned the year or the city that this Godzilla-like monster attacked. So it's possible that this unseen monster attacked, lets say, Los Angeles in 1997 or Miami in 1998 or whatever.

The reason why Prime Minister Machiko Tsuge from Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla said that Mothra was destroyed in 1961 and that Gaira was killed by the maser cannons instead of being killed by the volcano along with Sanda was because she was either thinking about other monsters or was too old to remember anything correctly or she was misinformed by somebody and didn't bother to do the research herself.

The Kamoebas that died in Tokyo S.O.S was the same one that appeared and, supposedly, attack Japan in 1987. Also, the amoeba that turned the mata-mata turtle in a second Kamoebas died some time after the events of Space Amoeba because it turns out that it couldn't live in Earth's atmosphere for too long due to certain elements in both the air and sea. So the amoeba died, but the second Kamoebas stayed the same. So no, I don't think that Godzilla was controlled by the amoeba in Tokyo S.O.S nor do I think that it is still lurking somewhere in the world of the Kiryu Saga.

It's possible that Godzilla fought and killed at least one other monster in the Final Wars continuity before he got trapped in the ice.

Ivo-goji wrote:^I guess that's plausible, but it's still weird to think of the world of G2000 as a place where things like the Super X and the Psychic Research Institute exist.

Giving it a bit more thought...I'm warming up to a view of 54-84-2000 as a 'loose trilogy' of sorts.

I used to feel like I HAD to have Biollante included because there needs to be an explanation for Godzilla coming out of the volcano.

But frankly...the original film ends on the idea that 'another Godzilla may appear one day', and in Return of Godzilla, we see that quite plainly...it is a new Godzilla, not the original. They dump in in a volcano.

I haven't watched the movie in some time....I'm unsure if ROG has any sort of lines alluding to future Godzilla appearances in the same way(the ending VO of 1985 sort of does....but that cut also implied that original Godzilla and this one were the SAME creature)....but if they did that would be convenient.

It could just be assumed that the Godzilla seen in G2K is simply a 3rd Godzilla creature(hence all of the differences) that has been around for a few good years.

It is also a bit easier to explain that the Super X and Maser Tanks were wiped out/discontinued after the devastation the 2nd Godzilla unleashed. A LITTLE easier to accept than the notion that Psychics and a SECOND Super X and all of that evaporated.

As for the Kiryu Saga timeline, I’m of the opinion that the exact events of the films that take place in the Kiryuverse didn’t happen, but rather the monsters featured in said films, just attacked random places. E.g. Baragon and Oodako attacked Japan one day and were killed.

VoyagerGoji wrote:As for the Kiryu Saga timeline, I’m of the opinion that the exact events of the films that take place in the Kiryuverse didn’t happen, but rather the monsters featured in said films, just attacked random places. E.g. Baragon and Oodako attacked Japan one day and were killed.

This is how I've always thought of it. I mean, Gorath literally can't exist in that universe since the moon blew up in that movie. It makes more sense Maguma exists and just got pissed and threw a shit fit somewhere.

I always thought everything happened as in Showa, but when it came to Gorath it just passed Earth by eons away but it still messed with the planet a bit and it woke Maguma up.

Final Wars takes place in the showa timeline with a few necessary retcons. Gigan, for example, could not have shown up yet unless there were time travel shenanigans involved which I guess isn’t totally out of the question; so that, after their previous two failures, Gigan got sent back in time by the Nebula M aliens in an attempt to preemptively conquer earth before Godzilla was born to defend it, only to be defeated by Mothra and mummified.

Something happened in between DAM and Final Wars that put Godzilla at odds with humanity once again. Perhaps Minilla was killed and humanity was responsible for it. The Minilla present in Final Wars is actually a second baby Godzilla, which would explain why he hasn’t grown or matured since DAM.

Keizer Ghidorah is actually King Ghidorah himself, thought to be long dead. The Xiliens salvaged his body after the events of DAM and mutated him with Keizer cells, causing him to undergo a long metamorphosis. Monster X is actually a chrysalis stage that King Ghidorah goes through in his transformation into Keizer Ghidorah, hence the shell like exoskeleton. Think Metapod, Cocoona, or better yet, Pupitar.

JesstrK wrote:Final Wars takes place in the showa timeline with a few necessary retcons. Gigan, for example, could not have shown up yet unless there were time travel shenanigans involved which I guess isn’t totally out of the question; so that, after their previous two failures, Gigan got sent back in time by the Nebula M aliens in an attempt to preemptively conquer earth before Godzilla was born to defend it, only to be defeated by Mothra and mummified.

Something happened in between DAM and Final Wars that put Godzilla at odds with humanity once again. Perhaps Minilla was killed and humanity was responsible for it. The Minilla present in Final Wars is actually a second baby Godzilla, which would explain why he hasn’t grown or matured since DAM.

Keizer Ghidorah is actually King Ghidorah himself, thought to be long dead. The Xiliens salvaged his body after the events of DAM and mutated him with Keizer cells, causing him to undergo a long metamorphosis. Monster X is actually a chrysalis stage that King Ghidorah goes through in his transformation into Keizer Ghidorah, hence the shell like exoskeleton. Think Metapod or Cocoona.

I like this. But wasn’t Godzilla trapped in ice sometime in the 20th century? Also how did the monsters magically double in height?

VoyagerGoji wrote: I like this. But wasn’t Godzilla trapped in ice sometime in the 20th century? Also how did the monsters magically double in height?

Thanks. I don’t remember exactly when Godzilla was frozen in ice, I’d have to rewatch FW, but if that’s the case, we could just say Godzilla’s fallout with humans happened very shortly after DAM and he was frozen in ice in December 1999.

As for the size changes, we can put that down to the small retcons I mentioned. This sort of thing happens all the time in ongoing comics that began publication in 1940s thru 1960s when they want to keep the same continuity but update things to fit into modern times. For example, they used to say Captain America was thawed out in the 90
but now they say it was more recent. Peter Parker got bit by the spider in the 60s, but that’s obviously been retconned since the comics take place in the current time and he’s still only been Spider-Man for around 15 years. Likewise with Godzilla and company. We can say it’s the showa continuity but the kaiju were scaled up to go with modern sized buildings.

In regards to GMK: the Japanese government not only lied about the original Godzilla's demise, but also colluded with other nations to mislead and deny about other kaiju so as to prevent chaos.

Kind of like the Men in Black but focused on giant monsters and maybe aliens too.

Added in 1 minute 56 seconds:
More of a wish fulfillment, but the Dimension Tide created multiple Godzillas that rampage through time.

Godzilla 2000 is in canon with both Godzilla 1954, Mothra 1961, and Rebirth of Mothra. The time travel in RoM3 might have screwed with the timeline, leading to either the 1954 creature mutating and awakening later or the events changed so a second Godzilla was created sometime after 1961. The adult Mothra in RoM1 was the same Mothra from 1961 and the Elias as the daughters of the Shobijin. The reason Leo doesn't get involved in 2000 is because either
A. They know Godzilla is not an inherently evil monster, just a neutral force of nature
B. They're still recuperating from their battle with King Ghidorah
C. B but Godzilla, as a natural creature, is in a way acting as Earth's agent and is basically this universe's Battra equivalent

This is also a reason why no one in-universe is at all surprised kaiju exist and why some measure of fantastical weapons do exist in G2k. GvsMeg might also be canonical to this setting.

Final Wars is the sequel to both Godzilla vs Megaguirus and Godzilla vs Destroyah.

Here, let me explain my crazed 2 am logic.

OK, so Final Wars basic opening history happened. The world was attacked by Godzilla 2000, Gezora, Gaira, Titanosaurus, etc (and eventually Megaguirus which is where she came from) but the main thing is the ending of GVM. The G-Grasper's aim the Dimension Tide and blast Godzilla 2000 away. But then Godzilla appears at the end except for one thing....we never SEE the Godzilla.

My theory? The Dimension Tide though some quirk connected with Godzilla's DNA (say this is a problem with it and the Meganula happened because the test shot hit a dragonfly) and found the Heisei universe. There's a switchroo and now Adult Junior is in the XMG universe. He rampages, G-Grasper build the Gotengo and take down Godzilla, and eventually, years pass and more kaiju, and then Final Wars happens.

This is why there's flashbacks of Junior during the scene of FW Godzilla in the ice, he's remembering his past. His increased power is also due to the Dimension Tide mutating him/him being from a different universe compared to the other kaiju (compare what would happen if Captain Marvel ended up in the Marvel Noir universe where everyone's basically a normal human). Also Kumi Mizuno's character is the same person, just in a new position.

As for 2000, he ends up in the Heisei timeline and that becomes the PIpeworks trilogy and that's why there's a 90s and 1954 Godzilla and most of the monsters are Heisei minus the new ones, those are the Heisei versions of like Anguirus and Baragon.

No, I don't need to sleep fuck you.