RoM 2 ??? What the heck?

[RandomDeinonychus]

Not even SpaceGodzilla is as bad, and that's really saying something, but to each his own I suppose..

Well, given that I like Space Godzilla and have never understood why it's hated but the far worse Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah is a fan favorite, that's absolutely true.

I rank Space Amoeba about the same as ROM2 because I found both films tedious. There's a palpable sense in both that nobody involved actually cares if the movie is any good, and Akira Ifukube's score is so lazily recycled you coudl tell me they pulled a Godzilla vs. Gigan and just used stuff he had already recorded. I mean, the native chant is just the one from King Kong vs. Godzilla with the most cosmetic of changes.

As you say, though, to each their own. I mean, I found Atragon more enjoyable than The Mysterians, and I seem to be alone on that one.

That's not really a star wars rip off. Lots of movie have similar sequences

Well, you got me there. It's actually a Message From Space rip-off, since that film beat Return of the Jedi to the punch by 5 years.

[Goji]

King Ghidorah is "far worse" than SpaceGodzilla and ROM 2 is "on par" with Space Amoeba? Yikes..

Sure, man, if you say so.

[RandomDeinonychus]

To be fair, I haven't seen Space Amoeba since 2007. It is entirely possible I would like it more now than I did then, but it seemed an adequate point of comparison since there aren't many Toho kaiju films I wouldn't easily say I enjoyed much more than ROM2.

[GalacticPetey]

I watched Space Amoeba for the first time a month or so ago, and I don't think I would call it one of the worst. For the reasons, Goji posted earlier, I find it an entertaining film. It managed to hold my attention much more so than RoM2 which nearly put me to sleep.

The worst thing I can say about Space Amoeba is that it just kinda blends in with the other Showa films. It came out a lot later and it doesn't have the same allure as the 70s Godzilla films. It's a somewhat forgettable, but harmless movie.

[eabaker]

I would certainly say that Space Amoeba is my least-favorite Ishiro Honda film, and probably even my least-favorite Showa era kaiju flick. That said, I love the movie's color palette, and there are pieces of the score that I really dig. What that really adds up to, in the end, is not a lot more than one of my favorite opening credits sequences in a kaiju movie.

On the other hand, there is not a single category in which RoM2 offers one of my favorites of anything.

[RandomDeinonychus]

On the other hand, there is not a single category in which RoM2 offers one of my favorites of anything.

Aqua Mothra is probably my favorite Mothra imago, or at least tied with the GMK one.

...yeah, that's all I've got.

[eabaker]

On the other hand, there is not a single category in which RoM2 offers one of my favorites of anything.

Aqua Mothra is probably my favorite Mothra imago, or at least tied with the GMK one.

...yeah, that's all I've got.

Hey, that's worth something, anyway!

And it got me thinking, out of the Heisei and Millennium series, my favorite Mothra imago is probably the Tokyo SOS version, which gives that movie one "favorite" more than RoM2 has for me... and then it dawned on me that, despite that fact, I might actually like RoM2 more than Tokyo SOS.

I really don't like Tokyo SOS...

[LamangoKaijura]

Final Wars takes cues from Anime and The Matrix,

Not takes, steals.
Also, steals from X-men, Starwars, Matrix, Dragon Ball Z. Then the director remembered he was making a Godzilla film.

Okay, so where do you draw the line between "takes cues" and "steals"? Because the Rebirth of Mothra movies steal just as blatantly. Aqua Mothra's whole appearance ends up basically being a Star Wars rip-off (in the exact same way that Final Wars steals from it) and the invisible bridge in an ancient ruin is ripped from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. And that's just what I remember since the last time I watched it was just to show my 2-year-old son the monster bits.

Just say you like ROM2 better than Final Wars, Megalon, and Revenge and leave it at that, because that's your opinion. I disagree strongly, but I can't very well tell you you're wrong because you don't dislike the movie like I do--yet you keep defending the film by criticizing the other films for the same sins ROM2 is guilty of.

I will say, that I don't know if ROM2 is the worst daikaiju film Toho ever produced because Space Amoeba exists and if it's not an outright worse film, then it's definitely a tie.

Well the fact Final Wars had an actual death star and tie-fighters....

[Spuro]

Wow, all the hate for Space Amoeba. I love that film - although to be honest even I'm not sure why.

[edgaguirus]

SA is enjoyable, but that's not the point of this thread.

ROM2 is no masterpiece, but it's not the worst Toho has made. It has flaws, but there are at least 3 points in its defense.

1. The monsters. The first and third film use Ghidorah clones, but this movie has an original foe. Dagahra has a good design, and showed itself to be a powerful adversary. Personally, I like Dagahra, and I would want to see the monster again if only to give it a true rampage scene. It would be a colorful special effects shot to see Dagahra lay waste to some coastal city. Mothra's aqua form is another good design. I don't see it as a rip off of the x wing, but a sensible way of making Mothra's wings more streamline. Can you really imagine Mothra with fishlike fins of manta type wings?

2. The pyramid. This is a nice looking set, and the zigarat design is appropriately grand in structure. The exterior is the best part of the pyramid, with its towers and stone surface. The beam firing towers give it a fantasy tone which still fits with the ancient appearance.

3. The music score. My favorite part of the movie is the music score, especially the battle between Aqua Mothra and Dagahra. It's a rousing tune that follows the action well.

[Goji]

ROM2 is no masterpiece, but it's not the worst Toho has made.

Then what is, in your opinion? Cuz it sure as hell isn't Revenge, Megalon, or (I can't believe I'm saying this) Final Wars, which are all more enjoyable.

Dagarah was nothing special, as far as I'm concerned. To this day, I don't understand why people rave about him. It's a weak design, and the thing barely moves. It's also apparently an organic creature, yet it shoots..missiles? What?

Don't even get my started on how lifeless and stiff all of the Mothra marionettes were. Flying monsters were never Kawakita's (RIP) strong suit..

Aqua Mothra's design was neat, but the way it's utilized left a lot to be desired.

3. The music score. My favorite part of the movie is the music score, especially the battle between Aqua Mothra and Dagahra. It's a rousing tune that follows the action well.

By far, the best part of any of the ROM films. This much I can agree on.

[g2vd]

King Ghidorah is "far worse" than SpaceGodzilla and ROM 2 is "on par" with Space Amoeba? Yikes..

Sure, man, if you say so.

I agree I may really dislike Godzilla Vs. King Ghidorah but I would never go as far to say it's worse than SpaceGodzilla or Vs. Mothra (92).

[RandomDeinonychus]

King Ghidorah is "far worse" than SpaceGodzilla and ROM 2 is "on par" with Space Amoeba? Yikes..

Sure, man, if you say so.

I agree I may really dislike Godzilla Vs. King Ghidorah but I would never go as far to say it's worse than SpaceGodzilla or Vs. Mothra (92).

Except it's absolutely worse than both!

I've actually never understood the hatred for the 1992 Mothra--it's a solid film. At worst it's kind of forgettable, but even with its inconsistent environmental message its plot holds together better than most of the Heisei films. I'd definitely rank it well above Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II and, much as it pains me to say it, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah.

Mothra's aqua form is another good design. I don't see it as a rip off of the x wing, but a sensible way of making Mothra's wings more streamline. Can you really imagine Mothra with fishlike fins of manta type wings?

Again, I cannot empahsize this enough, but Aqua Mothra's design is not what I meant when I said her section rips off Star Wars. The rip-off comes from her turning into tiny Mothras that fly into Daghara and dogfight with his little starfish and blast his super structure to smithereens.

It never even occurred to me that the X-shape of her wings just makes it even more obvious.

[Goji]

What's so "solid" about it other than the music?

[Godzillian]

The rip-off comes from her turning into tiny Mothras that fly into Daghara and dogfight with his little starfish and blast his super structure to smithereens.

That's really grasping at straws to say it ripped off star wars especially with how you are wording the scene to sound closer to star wars then it actually is.

[g2vd]

I've actually never understood the hatred for the 1992 Mothra--it's a solid film. At worst it's kind of forgettable, but even with its inconsistent environmental message its plot holds together better than most of the Heisei films.

These are my main problems with it.

Mothra and the Cosmos are socio-paths, the flying effects for Mothra and Battra are worse than the ones found for Gigan and King Ghidorah in Godzilla Vs. Gigan a movie made 22 Years earlier with a far smaller budget and the other effects aren't much better, the battles is nothing more than a slow trudge of beaming and slow walking, the awful environmental massage which never gets developed and is forced down our throat by the characters literally every 5 seconds just results into a poorly, poorly massage that gives Captain Planet massages a bad name, Miki having no character or development in the movie at all...again, a large majority of the Military vehicles don't even do anything in the attacks and just sit there until they get blown up, etc.

The only noteworthy scene I would have to give the movie is the Volcano sequence which is honestly pretty awesome and the music of course. other than that I don't think there is anything I could name about the movie.

[RandomDeinonychus]

What's so "solid" about it other than the music?

For one thing, as my friend, El Santo--whose review doesn't actually reflect this, so I'm forced to go on memory--once pointed out that the film does a great job of playing fair with its kaiju's abilities. While Mothra and Battra both get some of the same ridiculous energy powers that plague the Rebirth of Mothra films, they're kept to a reasonable level. Mothra is still just a caterpillar as a baby and can't hold her own against Godzilla or Battra. As an adult, she can, but neither her nor Battra are a match for Godzilla alone so she still needs Battra's help to defeat him.

I also just think that its basic story works well and I can even see what point they were trying to make with the lopsided environmentalism. The effects are also largely consistent, certainly moreso than the prior film. Again, I wouldn't put it in my top ten, but I think it holds up better than people give it credit for.

Though now I'm reminded of the fact that one of the reasons I find the Rebirth of Mothra films so disappointing is that they really don't get Mothra at all. Mothra is supposed to win against impossible odds because she doesn't give up and she out maneuvers her opponents--but Mothra Leo is so overpowered she can never lose. Even the 1992 Mothra still had to rely on strategy, not just pulling an endless amount of powers out of her ass.

That's really grasping at straws to say it ripped off star wars especially with how you are wording the scene to sound closer to star wars then it actually is.

I think you're more obsessed with this point than I am. A friend who saw it years before I did described it as a Star Wars rip-off. When I saw it, I agreed. Clearly you don't, but it ultimately doesn't matter. It's a terrible film because it's terrible, not because it shamelessly rips off Indiana Jones and Star Wars.

[eabaker]

Dagarah was nothing special, as far as I'm concerned. To this day, I don't understand why people rave about him. It's a weak design, and the thing barely moves. It's also apparently an organic creature, yet it shoots..missiles? What?

The Dagarah praise absolutely baffles me. I find him, at best, forgettable. Seriously, most of the time I literally don't remember he exists as part of the Toho kaiju pantheon.

But I'd go so far as to say that the design is perhaps the most awkward and unappealing of any Toho kaiju, ever. I might even rank some of the Pacific Rim monsters as better looking than Dagarah, and it's hard for me to think of a harsher condemnation than that.

[EmperorGhidorah]

The Dagarah praise absolutely baffles me. I find him, at best, forgettable. Seriously, most of the time I literally don't remember he exists as part of the Toho kaiju pantheon.

I think for me, personally, a large part of Dagarah's appeal comes from the Barems he produced; I thought they were an interesting concept that worked rather well. They made Daggy feel like a global threat in a unique fashion, with their ability to potentially decimate entire oceans, as well as a worthy adversary for Mothra Leo to face off against. The way in which he weaponized them as shrapnels was inventive and I, for one, thought the sequence involving the Barem maelstrom that Daggy conjured up was a highlight of the entire ROM trilogy. There are a few other reasons why I hold him in higher regard than others do but, by and large, the Barems and how he utilized them are what makes Dagarah the opposite of a forgettable kaiju, IMO.

But I'd go so far as to say that the design is perhaps the most awkward and unappealing of any Toho kaiju, ever. I might even rank some of the Pacific Rim monsters as better looking than Dagarah, and it's hard for me to think of a harsher condemnation than that.

Really? Compared to most other Toho kaiju designs, I don't see what makes Dagarah's so unappealing.

[eabaker]

But I'd go so far as to say that the design is perhaps the most awkward and unappealing of any Toho kaiju, ever. I might even rank some of the Pacific Rim monsters as better looking than Dagarah, and it's hard for me to think of a harsher condemnation than that.

Really? Compared to most other Toho kaiju designs, I don't see what makes Dagarah's so unappealing.

I just see a big, shapeless mass with a bunch of stuff stuck on it. Which, admittedly, could be a description of a couple of other Heisei era creations, but Dagarah is particularly clunky.