Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

[Joseph Goodman]

Sony is a large corporation that can afford to make their own transfers as needed and have enough of a working relationship with Toho that they had all the elements they needed for their Blu-ray’s. Another distributor would be starting from scratch and therefore at the mercy of Toho.

And the Kraken Blu-ray’s simply got what Toho sent them, which just so happened to be Sony’s HD masters from the early 2000s and Toho’s HiVision master for G84.

Also, Sony released their titles to broadcast and DVD before Toho had made HD masters of their own, and Sony's policy had been to master everything in HD since the mid to late 90's. There's another aspect to this at play: Sony had theatrical rights to the Showa & Heisei films they released, and received materials from Toho to make their own negatives and prints, most likely text-less interpositives (which explains the video-generated text in the old masters). They had the materials and no HD transfers, so they made their own for their purposes.

[UltramanGoji]

Didn't some of the Toho Blu-Rays not see release until 2014 as well? I know the Hi-Vision transfers were completed in like, 2008 but the lack of Japanese Blu-Ray releases + the corporate attitude of Toho at the time could also be a factor in why they weren't so draconian before.

[Terasawa]

Yes, prior to 2014, only 13 (?) films were available on BD from Toho Video: Godzilla (54), Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidrah, the entire Heisei series, GXM, GMK, and GFW.

[tbeasley]

I don't know, to have them?

Bingo. I don't hold with this line of thought that we should wait for perfect releases of things or not have them at all. I mean, preferably extensive restorations would be taken and various alternate cuts would be preserved, but there is nothing, nothing worse for a film than to not be seen. Sure, bootlegs serve a purpose sometimes, but the lack of official availability for a movie is just about the worst thing that can happen to it. If Criterion released a set of all the Honda directed SciFi movies for Toho but only included the Japanese cuts with subtitles I'd be disappointed, but still appreciative that all of the films were out there an easily available for this current generation of folks so interested in the genre.

Yeah between long OOP titles getting readily available if imperfect sets from prestigious labels and nothing at all I'll go with the sets.

I understand the frustration but sometimes I think people nitpicking less than stellar audio/visual and obscure dubs the average person doesn't care about need to step back and realize how obtuse they sound.

[UltramanGoji]

The average person is not going to be buying these films.

[tbeasley]

The average person is not going to be buying these films.

For the most part yeah but the main upside to these kind of releases are the people who can finally see them.

[Terasawa]

This reminds me of a song by Ratt.

[Chrispy_G]

Not to mention...that it isn't just like casual people stumble across these sort of sets in the store and pick them up on a whim.

Plenty of articles and videos(Godzilla centric, home video centric, general movie centric) made a pretty big hoopla about Criterion Spine 1000 being a Godzilla collection. Criterion focused places covered it, etc

Plus, the release came in the wake of a big Godzilla Hollywood reboot, and will still be in circulation when the next big Hollywood Godzilla movie comes out.

Sometimes these releases can bring a wave(however small or large) of attention and discussion towards these films and can attract new audience members and, even if not new collectors, can at LEAST heighten the awareness in the overall movie realm.

I have a buddy who never owned any of the classic Godzilla films until this set came out, another friend who only had the original Criterion release of the 54 film as far as the Showa Films went and had not seen every Showa film prior to owning this set.

Any set, any release....it puts these films out there and gets them attention and discussion and awareness that they otherwise don't have.

I am more than happy to nitpick any release over what I would prefer...but a sort of "Perfect release or NO RELEASE AT ALL" mentality isn't doing any long-term good.

I mean...the Arrow Gamera release is probably delivering a huge spike in awareness and interest in Gamera. Without it, I personally may have never gone back and watched the Showa Gamera films, and I may never have gotten around to owning ANY Gamera films on Blu Ray.

Yes, it being everything we could ever hope for and then some certainly increases the enthusiasm "the fans" have and that can help push it further out to other people.

Still, if the set wasn't happening AT ALL...then there would be no articles, no YouTube videos, no renewed discussion or attention or suggestions, nothing that might drive any kind of awareness or interest from those 'outside' the fan base to maybe be attracted towards it.

It isn't like you go "Hey, I've never really given Godzilla a try, but the set looks cool so I'll buy it"...it might be "Hey, people are talking up this big new Godzilla release, maybe I should try watching some of those movies" and then through that, maybe they become a fan and after a few films decide that the set is worth getting.

[G1985]

The average person is not going to be buying these films.

Huzzah! I'm above average!

[Rody]

I think the Arrow Gamera set is getting attention largely for how much stuff we're getting in one package. On top of new/improved film transfers, we're getting ALL archival features, plus new features, plus new/reprinted comics, PLUS a book of essays... Did the Mill Creek collections get much coverage in comparison?

Criterion's Godzilla set was important because A) Criterion is a prestige label, B) we got all Showa films under one label for the first time (including a couple titles that had become rare), C) we got transfers that were largely improvements over previous US releases. For all the set still could have been, Criterion gave us an improvement over previous releases, in some aspects.
The Heisei and Millennium films have mostly stayed easy to find, so unless there's a chance of dramatic improvement in presentation - which, as already indicated, doesn't seem likely - there's not much point in a collected set right now, in my opinion. I'm not asking for a perfect set - I just want one that's clearly BETTER.

[Tamura]

C) we got transfers that were largely improvements over previous US releases

haha that's a stretch

if I had to name any of the criterion set's attributes, the picture quality isn't it (i dunno if "a slew of downgrades" and "identical transfers to two previous BDs" and "dvd-quality HD transfers" constitute improvements... i'm just an industry professional, what do i know?). maybe the premiere of actually good subtitles and *some* of the artwork. that's about it. everything else in the set is duplicated stuff that could be found without much difficulty for years (for me "difficult" means "out of print european VHS releases from the 1980s" not "widely circulated HDTV rips"). the whole "all titles under one label" thing just doesn't hit the same way in 2020 when you can find all the films on internet archive. idk maybe that's just me, it's not a quality that will make me admire the set or anything it represents. i just perceive the set as "this is as much as toho will allow the US to see, and nothing more" and my opinion therefore is fuck the set. subscribing to criterion channel to watch the films is the superior deal imo.

i don't think the arrow set wins due to quantity alone, it's the QUALITY of the abundant content. criterion set has 15 films and only two commentaries duplicated from their earlier release. gamera set has a commentary on every film with only two duplicates. that's hours upon hours of historical context. plus every single extant dub. dubs are important, just as much to the gamera films as they are to the godzilla series... some of the gamera sequels were pre-sold to AIP, who Daiei had contractual obligations to in the casting of caucasian kids and inclusion of certain subject matter, like space monsters. it is a CRIME that the criterion set almost completely marginalizes the US influence on the franchise. thanks toho!

toho-authorized releases kinda remind me of voting

[Rody]

I was under the impression Criterion's discs were at least a marginal upgrade from most other US disc releases (besides the Kraken Blu-rays), due to better encoding or other details; but I'm NOT an industry professional, so I WOULDN'T know.
For a lot of people, though, I'm guessing tracking down other, more substantial versions was something they didn't know, or care, enough about to do on their own. Having a company like Criterion officially provide and promote the films helped bring awareness to new customers that places like Internet Archive couldn't/wouldn't.

In the case of Arrow, I basically agree; my point was that Arrow is providing both the most, and the best, content they possibly can for this set (thanks to Kadokawa actually working with Arrow more), and it's shaping up to be the most definitive Gamera video set we've ever had, and probably will be for a good while. This set is a big deal, and Arrow is making sure we all realize that - which is why the set is getting good coverage.

My point is, the Heisei and Millennium Godzilla films don't appear to be in the same scenario as either the Showa Godzilla films or any of the Gamera films. If a would-be licensor were to do a box set for the films, that licensor - and Toho, in collaboration - had better step up their game to make sure the set is special; otherwise the existing Sony DVDs and Blu-rays will probably suffice (especially for the "average consumer").

[Chrispy_G]

-Godzilla and King of the Monsters match the previous Criterion release AKA the best those films have looked on home market.
-The US version of King King vs Godzilla matches the Universal Blu Ray presentation of the film. When I looked at screen-cap comparisons, they seemed pretty much the same to me.
-Raids Again, Mothra, Ghidorah, Astro-Monster, All Monsters Attack, and Terror of MechaGodzilla are obvious improvements over Classic Media's mid-00s DVDs
-Destroy All Monsters and Megalon having transfers used on the Media Blasters Blu Rays, but better encodes/presentations of what is there.
-Son of Godzilla and Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla might be debatable. You can argue the Sony masters for the DVDs were better, but those were still SD presentations compared to the HD presentations they get in the Criterion set.
-Ebirah, Hedorah, and Gigan are the 3 that are distinctly worse presentations than the Kraken Blu Rays

The subtitle presentations for all of the films are the best they've ever been. Missing dub options for films that should have them is definitely frustrating.

For me, watching on a disc is always superior to digital. Maybe for some it doesn't matter, but I can't help but notice every negative that comes from a streamed/downloaded image.

If a Heisei or Millennium set came with even the equivalent bonus materials of the Criterion Set(even just 2 commentaries and a disc of bonus materials) and even SLIGHTLY improved presentations to what we have....that would be worth me getting those sets, for sure.

[tbeasley]

For a lot of people, though, I'm guessing tracking down other, more substantial versions was something they didn't know, or care, enough about to do on their own. Having a company like Criterion officially provide and promote the films helped bring awareness to new customers that places like Internet Archive couldn't/wouldn't.

In other words not everyone is an anal retentive videophile.

[Terasawa]

Why you gotta be rude about it though? Can't we have a discussion about this without resorting to name calling.

You're not going to find many people willing to engage with you if you're calling them "obtuse".

[LegendZilla]

Maybe Criterion should just buy out Media Blasters/Tokyo Shock (or at least what's left of it).

[UltramanGoji]

Maybe Criterion should just buy out Media Blasters/Tokyo Shock (or at least what's left of it).

Why is the solution to everything with you a big capitalist buyout? Do you even know what you're talking about half of the time? Criterion is a small label of less than a hundred employees. They are in no position to buyout a label that does nothing but put out porn and camp films. I don't even know why they would.

[LegendZilla]

Maybe Criterion should just buy out Media Blasters/Tokyo Shock (or at least what's left of it).

Why is the solution to everything with you a big capitalist buyout? Do you even know what you're talking about half of the time? Criterion is a small label of less than a hundred employees. They are in no position to buyout a label that does nothing but put out porn and camp films. I don't even know why they would.

So long as Criterion itself isn't bought out.

[Chrispy_G]

Not to get very off topic...but it does seem like, as far as the premium home market labels go....Criterion is definitely slipping up...or falling behind.

Comparisons between the Godzilla set and Arrow Gamera set notwithstanding....companies like Arrow and Shout are now breaking into 4K releases while Criterion is either against it, hesitant to do it, or financially incapable of making that leap. Arrow and Shout also more consistently release films of the flashy/genre/mainstream variety that appeal far more to my preferences than Criterion.

A nice case study of the symbolic passing of the torch is Robocop. Back in the day, it was a Criterion DVD release. Nowadays it is released by Arrow Video with all the fixing, Criterion USED to be the home for that, now it is a label like Arrow. That is the kind of reputation Criterion had, but I see an increasing number of Criterion releases where more folks are becoming more critical on how Criterion is executing their releases. Specifics about the presentations, what is included, what is left out, the choices of the packaging, etc.

I'm at the point where I no longer root for films I love to be picked up by Criterion because that means the potential of a 4K release is off the table. 4K isn't EVERYTHING. A great Blu Ray can look better than a bad 4K release...but if the option is on the table to showcase a film in 4K vs only on Blu Ray, I'd like to see a 4K release.

So....Criterion might be slipping up with their ultimate fate being to be purchased or merged into something else.

Preferably they wouldn't be gobbled up by a major studio and turned into their personal home market division(like how WB has Warner Archives, and Paramount has started something similar)...and they would instead be merged into one of their colleagues in the home market space like Shout or Arrow, with the resulting company being bigger and more capable than either one was before.

[Terasawa]

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