Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

[airforce111]

Just bought the criterion set on Amazon, after being sent some more stills from another user here, I think there was enough "improvement" from Toho's that it would be a good item to have. Basically, they all look like they were less DNR'd. And there were less compression artificats than I thought (vs the jpg images floating around on dvdbeaver and bluray.com). It's not a massive upgrade in any sense BUT I'll take whatever I can get.

Side note: This probably means I'll be using criterion (or at the least, parts of the criterion editions) as a source for my projects

[DragonZord13]

So I gave that thread a look and while Some films have major edits a lot of it seems to be different credits or TV edits. Now if someone said "Hey release the Missile scene from Mothra VS Godzilla on Blu-Ray!" I'd say "Okay do it." But if another fan yelled "release the heavily edited Terror of Mechagodzilla on Blu-Ray!" I would reply "What? Why?"
Biased? Of course. But I can not see the merit in keeping a edited copy of TOM alongside a copy of the Misslie scene from MvG. One is a entirely new segment that contains a wealth of fun footage while the other is superseded by the Uncut TOM cut that IS available to the public. Is what I am saying making any sense?

[Tamura]

The title of the guide begins with "Comprehensive Guide" for a reason. I created it as an aid for people confused by what copy of a particular dub they have, and for restorers trying to figure out which copies of the dubs are the most accurate or have the best audio/picture quality. I also created it to enrich the fandom's knowledge of the English versions released stateside or created by Toho, and their various permutations, through a handy guide written in a way that is not completely inaccessible. Thus, the guide is mainly a list of many copies of a multitude of dubs. That's why the list includes many copies with alternate credits, or TV versions with slight differences. I tried to list as many unique variations of each version as possible.

Sure, the US theatrical version of TOMG isn't as easily justifiable as a bonus alternate version as the US version of MvsG. You chose one of the best, easiest examples, and one of the absolute hardest to defend examples. Nobody is advocating that absolutely every single incarnation of every dub be released on video. The UPA TV version of Frankenstein Conquers the World is a trainwreck, and I'd be happy with just a decent TV rip of it, at best, but the US theatrical version should be a priority. If you look at the guide, there are dozens of examples of dubs and versions that are interesting and should be prioritized, and there are tons of examples of slight variations of dubs that don't need to be prioritized as much.

[The Octopus]

^ Is there a version of TOMG still available with the Terror of Godzilla titlecard?

Every version I've seen through the decades alway had no titlecard when the screen freeze-frames.

[Terasawa]

^ Is there a version of TOMG still available with the Terror of Godzilla titlecard?

Every version I've seen through the decades alway had no titlecard when the screen freeze-frames.

Not on video, although 35mm prints certainly still exist.

The version released on video in 1983 (and probably as re-released in 1989) apparently accidentally omitted a title card but later versions for syndication and video added new video "Terror of Mechagodzilla" titles.

[Rody]

By a show of hands, who all would be interested in me updating this document that examines the English language dissemination of our favorite films?

If anyone does want to know more, just PM Terasawa, omgitsgodzilla, Goji, SHM or me. Or follow our posts. We should collaborate on a book, but I’m sure Toho would not authorize it. It would be a shot in the arm of a franchise that doesn’t have enough scholarly literature or research published considering the impact it has had on culture, and this is a particularly fertile area of exploration that could enable spinoffs in other areas... understanding and analyzing media objects as not rigid, but fluid and constantly mutating as they travel and are adopted by different cultures can be applied to any franchise or film genre, or any movie. The original Godzilla is an absolutely fantastic case study of this phenomenon.

*raises hand*

I may not look at the Comprehensive List thread often, but I appreciate having that information available and admire the work put into it.

I like the idea of a book on the subject - or, if not a book, maybe a website or something like that, where the information could be archived, organized, and presented in an appealing and educational way. I may not be much more than a collector of toys, but I totally understand the desire to preserve this knowledge, and the frustration which comes from such knowledge being forcefully suppressed by the very people who helped create it. That's what Star Wars fans have been ranting about the special editions for years; just in our case, it's audio tracks and other short bits instead of revisioned effects shots.

[DragonZord13]

Hmm fair enough. I respect and appreciate the comprehensive list mind you, i just wasn't sure if anyone wanted to Preserve every single type. Since many versions seem to be redundant or so minor that it begs "why bother?" But a comprehensive list is just that and their was plenty I got out of it. In terms of the Showa collection did the company ever address the film's with " major" differences and why they were excluded from the set?

[Tamura]

Criterion was only able to include masters and dubs that Toho provided them with. This is all that is really public knowledge.

[G-MAN]

Criterion was only able to include masters and dubs that Toho provided them with. This is all that is really public knowledge.

Yep and we have no idea what criterion had the option to do but chose not too either. The into real information else have is what came from the responses people got from John mulvaney.

[Terasawa]

Criterion was only able to include masters and dubs that Toho provided them with. This is all that is really public knowledge.

Yep and we have no idea what criterion had the option to do but chose not too either.

I'd say more if I could but ^that's just not true.

[Gothra]

So I have my set. I love the book. The essays are nice, the artwork in the large book format is stunning. All in all beautiful presentation that I'm incredibly happy with. I've already watched the whole thing and the movies themselves are a clear step up from what was previously available and even though films like Ebirah or Gigan aren't as sharp as their Kraken counterparts they do have their own advantages - I actually prefer Hedorah here to Kraken's; after comparing the two I realized that Kraken's is so dark details are lost. All in all the video presentation might not be perfect but it is quite watchable, sometimes even beautiful (the colors look so lovely!), with a look I'd expect from a theater screening, and for both casual fans and long-time fans with reasonable, informed expectations there's little reason to be disappointed. The special features, while not abundant, are very enjoyable, particularly getting to listen to Honda ramble for an hour, and having the Japanese King Kong vs Godzilla, even in its compromised state with *GASP* hardcoded subs (for a bonus feature!) is very nice. Speaking of subs, the subtitle translations here are quite nice, in some movies there are even new details/nuances and jokes that were previously left out/poorly translated; because of this Godzilla Raids Again makes more sense, Invasion of Astro-Monster is funnier, the Black Hole Aliens in Terror of Mechagodzilla are better characterized, etc. It's quite the treat.

Thought I'd share since it's my excitement for this set that got me attacked here before, and I also wanted to say that you're a lot of clowns. Some of you really need to take a step back and look at your behavior because it's not cute. You can be disappointed, and it's understandable why you would be disappointed with Toho's handling of this franchise, but your constant whining, conspiracies, pretentiousness, and bullying? You look bad to everyone on the outside looking in. You look like children when you call people normies for preferring an uncropped image when you're not even sure yourself what the correct framing is, or when you diminish someone else's love for the franchise or a particular era because they're happy about this set or aren't worried about the dubs and make presumptions about people. People put up with you because of your knowledge and/or restoration work, but honestly? I don't think some of you know as much as you think you do, and I think some of you are lashing out because you feel as if your importance is being compromised by proper US releases of these films. But don't worry, you can still make boots for the dubs and alternate versions, so you'll be okay (though I don't know why anyone would want to support people with your attitudes, maybe work on that if you want people to sympathize with anything you're saying). I hope everyone silently browsing these forums has the sense to ignore all of your technical showboating or at least take it with a grain of salt, look for other sources of information, and make up their own minds because I don't think you people would be happy if Toho gave you immaculate 4K restorations of every single version of the movies and gave you a handy, you would still find something to complain about. It's hostile, pretentious, elitist attitudes like the ones dominating this thread that are the reason this place and other kaiju focused communities aren't more active, and you should be ashamed of yourselves, though your complete and total lack of self-awareness tells me shame isn't in your vocabularies. Bye. (:

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Hope somebody is allowed to stream King Kong vs Godzilla. I don't want to buy this whole set just for the Japanese version.

[Terasawa]

Edit: Mods delete.

[goji89]

Im taking her post seriously as it was well thought out.

Great review and very true.

Where's the thumbs up for posts like these.

Thumbs up..

[omgitsgodzilla]

I'll acknowledge my last post was kind of bitter, but that's a hell of a wall of text to drop after an actual productive discussion about what forms an alternate version exists in.

One point you're absolutely wrong on, though, is those of us interested in preserving alternate versions and so on feeling the relevance of what we do is being compromised by this release. That's a pretty baffling claim; how could the preservation of something neglected by its owners be made irrelevant by its owners continuing to neglect it in their "proper" releases?

If anything, we're frustrated that people and companies with more resources to devote to that sort of thing than any of us will ever have are either unwilling (Toho) or unable (Criterion) to do so. I would love my reconstructions to become obsolete. I'd love for this sort of thing not to fall to fans anymore. That's what we were hoping for with this set, and that's a large part of why we're dissatisfied. I don't see how you could misinterpret things that way unless you were working backwards from a particular conclusion.

[Maritonic]

Alright, so I'm going to kindly ask everyone to take a step back and breathe a bit.

With respect to the critics of this set, when you start insulting people, like calling them normies, it's not really surprising that people who *do* like the set are going to reply in-kind. The people who have purchased the set and love it have every single right to do so, and it doesn't make them any lesser than any of you who hate it with a burning passion.

Both sides have things to contribute to this conversation, about the set itself and about Toho's future with other versions of the films, and the restorations themselves. So if everyone can just chill out with the extremes, it would be a lot easier to have a civil conversation.

I'd really rather not have to come in here again.

[mikelcho]

I just saw the set in my local Banes and Noble last night. The thing is big!

It's going to be tough to get this one by myself.

[Rody]

I went through a bunch of the special features last night, and they were very enjoyable. The "Unused SFX" documentary was particularly neat.

Tonight I checked out Mothra vs. Godzilla, which looks quite good overall, at least on my modest TV set. Some scenes appear slightly more naturally colored than others; I don't know if that reflects Criterion's work, or a difference in the condition of the used elements, or both.

[DragonZord13]

I got my set today and wow it's huge. The pictures and opening text are a joy to read and look at it. I am watching G 1954 right now and the picture is clear and the subtitles convey a few different messages. For example in the Classic Media version of G 1954 I swear the old man says "...You'll become food for Godzilla..." But the Showa set he says "...I will feed you cows to Godzilla..." Talk about a while different message there. Little things like that give this viewing a slight newness to it.
Well worth it so far folks. Let's see how the rest of it holds up.

[Gojira-Fan]

I got my set today and wow it's huge. The pictures and opening text are a joy to read and look at it. I am watching G 1954 right now and the picture is clear and the subtitles convey a few different messages. For example in the Classic Media version of G 1954 I swear the old man says "...You'll become food for Godzilla..." But the Showa set he says "...I will feed you cows to Godzilla..." Talk about a while different message there. Little things like that give this viewing a slight newness to it.
Well worth it so far folks. Let's see how the rest of it holds up.

Unfortunately, I think you will find G54 is an exception and not the rule with this set (which unlike most of the films in this set was actually properly restored). The video quality in this set will probably be an improvement for most films, but the Sony/Kraken DVDs and Blu-Rays are better in terms of video quality. Still soft transfers overall and a bit disappointed in the set imo, but it is nice to have the Showa series in HD.