Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

[Tamura]

Opening up a NA branch would add even more unnecessary complexity to a corporation that, if anything, needs better management on multiple levels. That would be a more interesting discussion topic that ought to be stickied... it would send a constructive message. Their bureaucracy is a well documented embarrassment and it needs to change, or media will die.

[Tohosaurus]

This box set is probably intended to hold fans over for at least a decade. :/

Sad but true. I wouldn't anticipate Criterion bringing out a new version of the Showa movies.

All this is a real bummer though. Toho really needs to get a proper 4K transfer for all their Godzilla movies, but the market in Japan is probably too small for it to be sensible on more than the few best selling, like the original or Shin.

[G-MAN]

This box set is probably intended to hold fans over for at least a decade. :/

Sad but true. I wouldn't anticipate Criterion bringing out a new version of the Showa movies.

All this is a real bummer though. Toho really needs to get a proper 4K transfer for all their Godzilla movies, but the market in Japan is probably too small for it to be sensible on more than the few best selling, like the original or Shin.

Part of the problem is the pricing though. I remember how much toho was asking for the individual releases when they first came out almost ten years ago now. And they still get up there in price. They honestly price themselves out of being profitable even though they put such little effort into restoring them. And doesn't help that Godzilla's popularity in Japan seems to fluctuate so much at times.

Heck I'm sure shin wouldn't have done as well sales wise if they weren't smart enough to have the price of it be more fair.

Added in 5 minutes :

As for the Criterion set, it's very promising how well it seems to be selling (at least initially). To be that high up the sales charts is surprising, and frankly I was getting somewhat skeptical about how well Showa movies were selling in general given that both Classic Media and Sony had waning interest in their titles. While these are still niche obviously, it's still nice to see.

It's not a bad thing that the set has been doing well not at all even if I still stand by the fact that this is a budget release dressed as a premium set. But part of the reason it did so well is peiole in this fandom seem to hold out for boxsets. And I have nothing against them when done well. I just still think when companies even smaller ones have fewer films on their plate with this series they seem to be able to produce better results.

[Tohosaurus]

Part of the problem is the pricing though. I remember how much toho was asking for the individual releases when they first came out almost ten years ago now. And they still get up there in price. They honestly price themselves out of being profitable even though they put such little effort into restoring them. And doesn't help that Godzilla's popularity in Japan seems to fluctuate so much at times.

Heck I'm sure shin wouldn't have done as well sales wise if they weren't smart enough to have the price of it be more fair.

That's true, although I believe a lot of it is a product of the home media market in Japan as a whole, not only Toho. Now, given Toho's THE major studio power in Japan these days, could they help change that? Maybe, but given the steady decline of home media they probably see less value in drastically lowering prices. But obviously that makes it much tougher when a distributor elsewhere in the world is willing to put decent effort into a Toho product, or even bring it in a new or better format, and be unable to do so.

But the pricing does make it challenging as a fan. Despite there not being English subs, I would still be willing to pick up Shin Godzilla on 4K and the anime trilogy on Blu if they weren't each fantastically expensive. As I recall, Shin is nearing $100 for the special edition 4K. Which brings me to a separate topic of why they don't throw English subtitles on the disc as is done with some other movies for markets in Japan and Korea that share our region. Even priced at $100, if the Shin 4K had English subs I would've bought it already, which Toho would at least make a bit of money off of superfans importing the 4K as opposed to next-to-nothing by having no English subs and not allowing (I assume, could be mistaken) FUNimation to bring out a 4K for the US market.

(not trying to sound entitled about getting English subs, but like I said I know English subs get done on various Region A movies from Japan and Korea, movies without nearly the global fanbase as any given Godzilla movie)

[G-MAN]

Part of the problem is the pricing though. I remember how much toho was asking for the individual releases when they first came out almost ten years ago now. And they still get up there in price. They honestly price themselves out of being profitable even though they put such little effort into restoring them. And doesn't help that Godzilla's popularity in Japan seems to fluctuate so much at times.

Heck I'm sure shin wouldn't have done as well sales wise if they weren't smart enough to have the price of it be more fair.

That's true, although I believe a lot of it is a product of the home media market in Japan as a whole, not only Toho. Now, given Toho's THE major studio power in Japan these days, could they help change that? Maybe, but given the steady decline of home media they probably see less value in drastically lowering prices. But obviously that makes it much tougher when a distributor elsewhere in the world is willing to put decent effort into a Toho product, or even bring it in a new or better format, and be unable to do so.

But the pricing does make it challenging as a fan. Despite there not being English subs, I would still be willing to pick up Shin Godzilla on 4K and the anime trilogy on Blu if they weren't each fantastically expensive. As I recall, Shin is nearing $100 for the special edition 4K. Which brings me to a separate topic of why they don't throw English subtitles on the disc as is done with some other movies for markets in Japan and Korea that share our region. Even priced at $100, if the Shin 4K had English subs I would've bought it already, which Toho would at least make a bit of money off of superfans importing the 4K as opposed to next-to-nothing by having no English subs and not allowing (I assume, could be mistaken) FUNimation to bring out a 4K for the US market.

(not trying to sound entitled about getting English subs, but like I said I know English subs get done on various Region A movies from Japan and Korea, movies without nearly the global fanbase as any given Godzilla movie)

And with Shin you also have to remember and I'm not trying to defend them but I believe that set if gotten from Amazon had four discs that included all the extras. So while it started out kind of pricey it was at least a bit more fair for the content and discs you were getting from Toho instead of it just being the standalone 4k.

Oh I know it's not the entire issue but it is a big one. As these are mainly catalogue releases yet they price them as if they were special edition release of brand new films mostly. And yeah but you have to remember too. That part of the reason they don't put English subs is because in their minds this is for Japan only. And I think if they added subs they probably know they would lose out on a chunk of licensing. As hardcore fans would just import because they wouldn't have to rip the discs to add subtitles. Because sadly toho is one of those companies that seemingly refuses to do anything smart or for the fans. And just want to kick back and get money from farming the titles out to foreign distributors.

[gvamp]

Toho doesn't included subs on their releases because they make more money on licensing the films then they would if a fan like you or I would importing them. I'm not 100% sure why Toho denied a 4K release of Shin Godzilla stateside but from my understanding Funimation wanted to release it but Toho said no.

Its only recently that Toho has gotten sort of laxed on their stance. Aside from the fiasco that is the Criterion release.

As for the price of home media in Japan, all media is fairly expensive over there. I just looked up a few prices on Godzilla BDs as well as stuff like Spider-man and that came out to about $38 US in both cases. Godzilla was a bit cheaper though. This was through Amazon Japan other retailers could be more or less.

[G-MAN]

Toho doesn't included subs on their releases because they make more money on licensing the films then they would if a fan like you or I would importing them. I'm not 100% sure why Toho denied a 4K release of Shin Godzilla stateside but from my understanding Funimation wanted to release it but Toho said no.

Its only recently that Toho has gotten sort of laxed on their stance. Aside from the fiasco that is the Criterion release.

As for the price of home media in Japan, all media is fairly expensive over there. I just looked up a few prices on Godzilla BDs as well as stuff like Spider-man and that came out to about $38 US in both cases. Godzilla was a bit cheaper though. This was through Amazon Japan other retailers could be more or less.

They denied it because 4k blurays are region free. And they would definitely have lost big money on that seeing as a funiamtion wouldn't have charged anywhere near the amount toho would.

[gvamp]

Toho doesn't included subs on their releases because they make more money on licensing the films then they would if a fan like you or I would importing them. I'm not 100% sure why Toho denied a 4K release of Shin Godzilla stateside but from my understanding Funimation wanted to release it but Toho said no.

Its only recently that Toho has gotten sort of laxed on their stance. Aside from the fiasco that is the Criterion release.

As for the price of home media in Japan, all media is fairly expensive over there. I just looked up a few prices on Godzilla BDs as well as stuff like Spider-man and that came out to about $38 US in both cases. Godzilla was a bit cheaper though. This was through Amazon Japan other retailers could be more or less.

They denied it because 4k blurays are region free. And they would definitely have lost big money on that seeing as a funiamtion wouldn't have charged anywhere near the amount toho would.

But we share the same Region as Japan for 4K BD/BD

Japan and US are both Region A for BD, the only region where its different is DVD.

[G-MAN]

Toho doesn't included subs on their releases because they make more money on licensing the films then they would if a fan like you or I would importing them. I'm not 100% sure why Toho denied a 4K release of Shin Godzilla stateside but from my understanding Funimation wanted to release it but Toho said no.

Its only recently that Toho has gotten sort of laxed on their stance. Aside from the fiasco that is the Criterion release.

As for the price of home media in Japan, all media is fairly expensive over there. I just looked up a few prices on Godzilla BDs as well as stuff like Spider-man and that came out to about $38 US in both cases. Godzilla was a bit cheaper though. This was through Amazon Japan other retailers could be more or less.

They denied it because 4k blurays are region free. And they would definitely have lost big money on that seeing as a funiamtion wouldn't have charged anywhere near the amount toho would.

But we share the same Region as Japan for 4K BD/BD

Japan and US are both Region A for BD, the only region where its different is DVD.

Yes I know we do. But with 4k being region free that means not only peiole from Japan would import the 4k version from funimation, since it wouldn't be as expensive as the toho release. But so would people from other territories as well. Since it would subtitles and the dub. Whereas the Japanese release as we know just has the Japanese track.

[Great Hierophant]

So here are my initial impressions on getting this set yesterday.

I appreciate that the trailers are subtitled. It's fascinating to see the Japanese text and announcers become understandable to English-speakers. Did you know that Godzilla and the other monsters talk in the Ebirah and Son trailers? I didn't until I saw the subtitles. I know the Godzilla Raids Again trailer is not original, it is a trailer combined with Rodan and cuts out just as Rodan's roar is heard.

I will have much to delve into in the Supplements on Disc 8. It's great to hear Honda in his own words rather than other people speaking about him.

Although I would have preferred that the 4K restoration of KKvG been included rather than the cobbled together version, that version makes it easier to see where the film was cut for the Champion Festival. Whatever guilt I had about downloading the 4K restoration is now purged.

The splice lines are ever-present in the trailers, but in the films they are most noticeable in Mothra vs. Godzilla. One really feels like Toho scanned too much of the film area or Criterion should have cropped and enlarged the remainder to fit the aspect ratio not unlike what a projectionist may have done to hide the splices. Every change of shot is accompanied by a visible splice, something I've never seen before.

[gvamp]

So here are my initial impressions on getting this set yesterday.

I appreciate that the trailers are subtitled. It's fascinating to see the Japanese text and announcers become understandable to English-speakers. Did you know that Godzilla and the other monsters talk in the Ebirah and Son trailers? I didn't until I saw the subtitles. I know the Godzilla Raids Again trailer is not original, it is a trailer combined with Rodan and cuts out just as Rodan's roar is heard.

I will have much to delve into in the Supplements on Disc 8. It's great to hear Honda in his own words rather than other people speaking about him.

Although I would have preferred that the 4K restoration of KKvG been included rather than the cobbled together version, that version makes it easier to see where the film was cut for the Champion Festival. Whatever guilt I had about downloading the 4K restoration is now purged.

The splice lines are ever-present in the trailers, but in the films they are most noticeable in Mothra vs. Godzilla. One really feels like Toho scanned too much of the film area or Criterion should have cropped and enlarged the remainder to fit the aspect ratio not unlike what a projectionist may have done to hide the splices. Every change of shot is accompanied by a visible splice, something I've never seen before.

Ghidorah gets rather bad too especially in the middle of the film. I'm hoping that Criterion sees that a lot of people are unhappy with this and just recall the discs and digitally remove the splice marks instead of trying to pass it off as a feature of the film.

[Tohosaurus]

Ghidorah gets rather bad too especially in the middle of the film. I'm hoping that Criterion sees that a lot of people are unhappy with this and just recall the discs and digitally remove the splice marks instead of trying to pass it off as a feature of the film.

Depends on what Toho will allow, though.

They denied it because 4k blurays are region free. And they would definitely have lost big money on that seeing as a funiamtion wouldn't have charged anywhere near the amount toho would.

Which is exactly why I wonder why they wouldn't (IF it is true) allow 4Ks other than their version if they don't have subs that make it possible to export it to consumers elsewhere.

[Crazy Jim Films]

I noticed the splice lines back when Megalon came out through Media Blasters. Most of the Sony and Classic Media releases did not seem to have them. They were also visible in the streaming versions that were airing on Starz. It's fairly distracting but it seemed like few people picked up on it back when the uncut Megalon was released.

[Tamura]

Although I would have preferred that the 4K restoration of KKvG been included rather than the cobbled together version, that version makes it easier to see where the film was cut for the Champion Festival. Whatever guilt I had about downloading the 4K restoration is now purged.

Why did you feel guilt?

[GodzillaRangerPrime]

I like that this forum is so open to criticism towards this set,
as oppose to other places like The Godzilla Collectors Group on FB, Reddit, and etc where people meltdown over the smallest hint of criticism/ negativity.

I hate when fanbases/ people in general are super docile/ complacent.

Im genuinely not trying to pick on you or anyone who shares your sentiments. But I have the exact opposite reaction; with the release of this set I’m going to have to hang on to many old items I hoped to replace and even seek out additional fan restorations in addition to adding this set to my collection.

Yeah, when it comes to Godzilla films, older physical copies are always worth keeping.

Oh yeah that group is honestly notorious for being really bad with how they treat people. Not to mention just how much they honestly love to bash stuff yet how dare anyone not praise this set. Even got Jim Cironella doing bus rounds every so often attacking people who critique it. Healthy debate is good especially with stuff like this. Where we will never get better releases if we just keep quiet. Just hope criterion double dip and doesn't compress the heck out of the films like they have. Or maybe some foreign companies will have better luck and get masters that weren't so dnr'd like the toho blurays are.

Still can't believe Ghidrah is in fact missing frames. I knew something was a bit off when I watched it a few weeks back.

Added in 3 minutes 22 seconds:

I think Criterion tends to keep most of their titles in print; you can check the list of titles on their website and see how many are still available. The original Gojira release is still in print, and it's several years old now. With as well as this particular set seems to be selling, I bet it will be around for a good while, unless Toho is a butt about things again.

Yeah, Toho makes it hard to be sure about these things. Well, I'll get it with my tax return at the latest. Thanks.

True but for better or worse I can see this sticking with Criterion for quite awhile. Unless they weren't smart and signed a short term contract that they sat on for a few years. Honestly would love if someone else would get the rights later on since criterion really phoned it in on this set. And I feel with some other companies they can put more focus on at least making up with extras or anything for the fact that they are stuck with what toho gives them. Or just using the Sony transfers and not being so focussed on the Japanese titles being shown even if that results in subpar picture quality.

Isn’t one of the admins of that group use to be Legion197(?) here on TK?
Dude has a rep for being a douche.

[MaxRebo320]

Oh yeah that group is honestly notorious for being really bad with how they treat people. Not to mention just how much they honestly love to bash stuff yet how dare anyone not praise this set. Even got Jim Cironella doing bus rounds every so often attacking people who critique it. Healthy debate is good especially with stuff like this. Where we will never get better releases if we just keep quiet. Just hope criterion double dip and doesn't compress the heck out of the films like they have. Or maybe some foreign companies will have better luck and get masters that weren't so dnr'd like the toho blurays are.

Isn’t one of the admins of that group use to be Legion197(?) here on TK?
Dude has a rep for being a douche.

I know he was admin at one point, but I'm not sure anymore. He banned me from the group years ago for me saying I think Trendmasters toys look cool.

But that's ironic as hell if they're that anal towards any criticism of this boxset. If the claws on a toy are painted a little whiter than they are on the actual suit, its the end of the fucking world. But criticizing the PQ/Toho's business practices? Stop whining and just be glad you ungrateful prick, you.

[Rody]

I don't think I've ever seen the FB Collector's group get THAT picky; but maybe I haven't been viewing the right (wrong?) posts/comments.

I think most people over there are just really happy to have all these films together at last, instead of scattered across licensors and OOP releases. It is what it is, and people are accepting that.

[Tamura]

You can change the process any way you want, but the outcome is always the same for the most part, and that's because Toho is a top-down dictatorship. I would actually have preferred continuing releases from multiple licensees. Maybe one of them could have pressed Toho harder than anyone else before and achieved some marginal victory, like the approval of a US trailer or something. Other than that, I don't see what changing the licensee does. You can extrapolate from the content of every release exactly what Toho will and will not approve, and 99% of what they will approve is content that can be found elsewhere rather easily, which creates an ecosystem of bland, predictable releases that overlap in most ways that matter. I can tell from previous releases that it's probably easier to approve a bland cover featuring the Japanese poster inside a window over something more creative. It's easier to approve barebones releases. It's easier to approve an approved dub over an unapproved dub. Licensees are probably contractually obligated to use transfers that Toho supplies them with. It's impossible to know what is stated in the contracts, or to know what each licensee tried to include, but I don't think it's fair to automatically scapegoat the licensees since we know how undemocratic the negotiations with Toho's North American commissars tend to be.

[G-MAN]

I don't think I've ever seen the FB Collector's group get THAT picky; but maybe I haven't been viewing the right (wrong?) posts/comments.

I think most people over there are just really happy to have all these films together at last, instead of scattered across licensors and OOP releases. It is what it is, and people are accepting that.

They seriously were thst picky though. On one post they were banning anyone who wasn't agreeing with them and just pointing out issues they had with the set and not just worshiping it for having all 15 films. Which yes is awesome. But I still stand by that it's sad that smaller companies that intended the films to be released as budget titles (or not at any sort of premium as the criterion set is) have released better products and more complete releases at that than Criterion. The company that is suppose to be the standard for physical releases.

And the fact that with all the limits put onto them for this release the least they could have done first and foremost was not have these films at times be so freaking compressed to where they are worse than alot of millcreek titles compression wise. And it's especially sad as seeing while some of the films are incomplete by missing frames here and there at times. They are superior than the Toho blurays as they aren't so devoid of detail or grain like the Toho blurays are. Which again is why it's so annoying that some of the films that could have benefited are compressed so much here.

They could've done more when it comes to original extras and of course the god awful packaging as well. But they didn't. This set does not bode well at all for the future of the series. As regardless of what your personal favorites are. This era is the most important and with how bad Toho is with preservation and by how aggressive/lazy their dnr and poorly color corrected their films are.

I truly hope something changes with the leadership at toho or some studio finally buys them out. Then hopefully someone will finally show their films the love and care they deserve.

[DrBreakfastMachine]

I still stand by the fact that this is a budget release dressed as a premium set

It's only dressed as a premium set in the sense that it's sold by Criterion. Price-wise it is a budget release IMO. If you buy it at its usual store price from Criterion it's $180, or $12 per movie. If you get it during a sale it's $112, or $7.50 a movie. Mill Creek's Mothra Steelbook goes for $12, Kraken's Return of Godzilla goes for $9. So the Showa set works out to roughly the same cost per movie as a release from a "budget" company. Certainly budget-friendly compared to paying $20-30 per movie, which is Criterion's using pricing. It's even budget-friendly compared to buying the Sony, Classic Media and Tokyo Shock discs back in the day, which were usually $15-20 a piece IIRC.