Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1.0, the anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Vakanai
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Vakanai »

Kaiju-King42 wrote:I'm convinced that Shin only looked as good as it did because it barely moved at all. Expensive model that's very well lit and implemented, but cheaply animated. Couple that with 70% of the movie being filmed in cheap, ordinary office spaces and you're left with a budget for a very realistic model... and not much else. The fact that they're on record saying they ran out of money to give the film a full score and soundscape is evidence of that; as is the drop in animation quality whenever Godzilla dramatically moves (such as in its earlier forms, or after it fires atomic breath).

If the movie was budgeted any other way, it would probably look more like the Attack on Titan movies. Maybe even worse, considering they refused to use a practical Godzilla.
Even if that's true - it still looks good, it still made Toho a ton of money (more than any practical Godzilla had made them since... Biollante? For decades), it was highly praised, it probably won them awards, and it was four years ago.

CG gets better and cheaper every year - they can probably animate Shin at least a little better now for the same cost back then. And that's just the computer/program angle. Add in that making a movie with that level of CGI as a first in Japan probably required a lot of networking with people, training people, buying new equipment, and so forth - costs and efforts that now that it has been put in for Shin can be leveled towards future movies without having to put in the same level of cost. Plus seeing Shin Godzilla probably inspired a bunch of teens to go into the field - and four years later many of them are now young adults just getting out of school and into the workplace (give or take, thanks corona), so there's now even more professionals and resources than when Shin was made. With more big spectacle movies like the previously mentioned Bravestorm, the CGI anime trilogy (it still helps here, for all its flaws), or the upcoming Shin Ultraman, that adds more to the talent pool, programming, and equipment available to hire or rent or buy to make better animated Godzilla models.

With all of that considered, even if you're correct about the limitations and budgeting to make Shin look that good, it was such a success, and it's becoming easier to replicate that level of visual effects, that I don't see them feeling pressure to get back to doing suits. There's good reason to expect the next Godzilla to further improve on the visuals set by Shin. Same way special effects improve in Hollywood.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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Last edited by BrazilianKaiju on Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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BrazilianKaiju wrote:
Looks great! Wish I could visit.

Nice to see Shin again, even in such a short video.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by phillipw1954 »

Stuff like this still makes me wonder whether Toho is planning to continue the continuity Shin set up. Sure this is short film is barely focused on Shin and no announcements have been made. But it makes me think. I'd totally be okay if Shin was a one-off though.
:?:

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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phillipw1954 wrote:I'd totally be okay if Shin was a one-off though.
But Shin being a one off is kind of the majority belief and opinion, if not outright wish. Being okay with that is expected. The better question is would you totally be okay if Shin does get a continuation?
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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BrazilianKaiju wrote:
While this is cool...a majority of those shots are literally taken from Shin Godzilla with just different environments. We got to see Shin in the water so that was cool lol
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by phillipw1954 »

Vakanai wrote:
phillipw1954 wrote:I'd totally be okay if Shin was a one-off though.
But Shin being a one off is kind of the majority belief and opinion, if not outright wish. Being okay with that is expected. The better question is would you totally be okay if Shin does get a continuation?
Honestly, I'd be okay if it was done right. The whole open-endedness of Shin could lead into very new and unique territories for the franchise.
:?:

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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mikelcho wrote:
I thought this was very interesting and wanted to share it with all you guys and gals.
Last edited by mikelcho on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by ShinGojira14 »

Vakanai wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:48 pm
Kaiju-King42 wrote:I'm convinced that Shin only looked as good as it did because it barely moved at all. Expensive model that's very well lit and implemented, but cheaply animated. Couple that with 70% of the movie being filmed in cheap, ordinary office spaces and you're left with a budget for a very realistic model... and not much else. The fact that they're on record saying they ran out of money to give the film a full score and soundscape is evidence of that; as is the drop in animation quality whenever Godzilla dramatically moves (such as in its earlier forms, or after it fires atomic breath).

If the movie was budgeted any other way, it would probably look more like the Attack on Titan movies. Maybe even worse, considering they refused to use a practical Godzilla.
Even if that's true - it still looks good, it still made Toho a ton of money (more than any practical Godzilla had made them since... Biollante? For decades), it was highly praised, it probably won them awards, and it was four years ago.

CG gets better and cheaper every year - they can probably animate Shin at least a little better now for the same cost back then. And that's just the computer/program angle. Add in that making a movie with that level of CGI as a first in Japan probably required a lot of networking with people, training people, buying new equipment, and so forth - costs and efforts that now that it has been put in for Shin can be leveled towards future movies without having to put in the same level of cost. Plus seeing Shin Godzilla probably inspired a bunch of teens to go into the field - and four years later many of them are now young adults just getting out of school and into the workplace (give or take, thanks corona), so there's now even more professionals and resources than when Shin was made. With more big spectacle movies like the previously mentioned Bravestorm, the CGI anime trilogy (it still helps here, for all its flaws), or the upcoming Shin Ultraman, that adds more to the talent pool, programming, and equipment available to hire or rent or buy to make better animated Godzilla models.

With all of that considered, even if you're correct about the limitations and budgeting to make Shin look that good, it was such a success, and it's becoming easier to replicate that level of visual effects, that I don't see them feeling pressure to get back to doing suits. There's good reason to expect the next Godzilla to further improve on the visuals set by Shin. Same way special effects improve in Hollywood.
Not to mention, Godzilla's (albeit few) quick and jerky movements in the movie didn't look all that cheesy to me, even after the atomic breath scene. If anything, to me it made the monster king seem more real because he's moving and behaving like an actual reptile.

The attention to detail of that film, even with the limited CGI they had, was amazing. And again, it was all accomplished on a budget of $15 million- 145 million less than Legendary Pictures' Godzilla.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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Vakanai wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:46 am
Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:Gotta give Toho a lot of credit for being able to do a consistently animate Shin as effectively as they have. Goes to show how far Japanese special effects are coming along.
Out of the admittedly limited number of "recent" live action Japanese movies I've seen, Shin is by far the best and most impressive visually - but I'm confident it's not a one off. Outside of Shin most of what I've seen from the past decade has been anime and Ultraman stuff, but there's one recent one that while not on Shin's level has some impressive CGI - Bravestorm. It's kind of a superhero vs alien invasion giant mecha movie, no kaiju. But the mecha and destruction scenes are visually impressive. It came to the States on DVD earlier this year, but was released in Japan back in 2017, just one year after Shin.

I don't know how good other Japanese movies look right now, but just having one more approaching the visual effects of Shin helps cement the progress of Japanese effects as more than a one time fluke. Really makes me look forward to the World of Godzilla even more, as well as more special effects movies from Toho and Japan in general.

(No idea if Toho had a hand in Bravestorm or not.)
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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Shin's special effects were extremely impressive when you consider how ambitious they were for a Japanese production. But if that's the high water mark for modern Japanese SFX, then I hope any Godzillas in the near future will employ some practical effects until the animation gets better. I thought the moving elements (namely Godzilla) were the weakest elements of all the SFX. IMO the animation of Godzilla and especially the tumbling skyscrapers at the climax was really poor. I wonder how effective or practical (no pun intended) it would have been to composite a Godzilla prop/costume and falling buildings into a digital "stage". The compositing of digital and live action elements in the film was really strong, although I imagine similar composites with practical FX footage would have been much more challenging. (Which is probably why they scrapped all planned shots of the Godzilla prop they built for this very purpose.)
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by ClandestineCanine9 »

on the unlikely chance Toho gives this movie a sequel, they should let Anno go absolutely buck-wild and do whatever Lovecraftian shit he wants to do. I'm here for it, no matter how disturbing it is. I want a truly horrifying Godzilla
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Gailah 1966 »

Happy 5th Anniversary!
It´s unbelievable but Shin Godzilla is already 5 years old!
BIG FAN SURVEY 2023 --> viewtopic.php?t=34920
BIG FAN SURVEY 2020 --> viewtopic.php?t=30470
Video of 2020´s results --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUxyzsQxwa4

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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Shin Godzilla isn't 5 years old until July 29th
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Mixtape Nostalgia »

I prefer Legendary's Godzilla but Shin is good too. I wonder if this will be the continued direction Toho takes.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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ClandestineCanine9 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:41 pm on the unlikely chance Toho gives this movie a sequel, they should let Anno go absolutely buck-wild and do whatever Lovecraftian poop he wants to do. I'm here for it, no matter how disturbing it is. I want a truly horrifying Godzilla
I hope they use the whole War of the Gargantuas angle of Godzilla being able to clone himself to get two Godzillas in the movie should a sequel ever be made. Such as in this scrapped concept art.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by StreamOfKaijuness »

^ Godzilla has a second, vestigial face in the tip of his tail in Shin Godzilla. I believe that piece of concept art and others depicting Godzilla with a second head were various ideas of how to portray his vestigial face. I doubt that art was meant to depict Godzilla cloning himself or that there was ever any intention to have more than one Godzilla in the film.

The giant angel Sachiel in Neon Genesis Evangelion grows a second face similar to what’s depicted in that Shin Godzilla concept art.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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ShinGojira14 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:52 pm
ClandestineCanine9 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:41 pm on the unlikely chance Toho gives this movie a sequel, they should let Anno go absolutely buck-wild and do whatever Lovecraftian poop he wants to do. I'm here for it, no matter how disturbing it is. I want a truly horrifying Godzilla
I hope they use the whole War of the Gargantuas angle of Godzilla being able to clone himself to get two Godzillas in the movie should a sequel ever be made. Such as in this scrapped concept art.
Image
The Sanda vs. Gaira idea is interesting. If they ever used this concept it would also allow for a new "Good Godzilla". I doubt all this, and it's whacky, but you never know.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by king_ghidorah »

I think the two Godzilla’s concept was “absorbed” by the humanoids on Shin’s tail.

I feel like exploring the “5th Form of Shin” is more interesting than 2 Godzillas

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

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ShinGojira14 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:52 pmI hope they use the whole War of the Gargantuas angle of Godzilla being able to clone himself to get two Godzillas in the movie should a sequel ever be made. Such as in this scrapped concept art.
[]https://i0.wp.com/halcyonrealms.com/blo ... =750%2C500[/]
He was supposed to break off into way more than just 2 Godzillas. Strange how radical that sounded 5 years ago, but today I sometimes think how cool that'd be to see.
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