Talkback Thread #5: Ghidorah, the Three Headed Monster(1964)

[three]

A great film, the first ever to feature a kaiju brawl, and it's a good one

And we might be seeing a reboot in 2018!!!

eh maybe...i hope not though. this film was alright, but i preferred MZ.

[edgaguirus]

MZ is a great film, but G3HM is the more fun one. I find the character of Shindo more memorable than Fuji or Glenn, and the fight had moments of small humor among the savage brawl. It also has one of the best monster enterances with KG's bursting from the meteor.

[three]

i wasn't big on the meteor thing. rather than creating suspense, it created a lull for me in the movie.

Godzilla chasing Rodan wasn't very exciting for me, either. they didn't really stop to fight for real until they were (almost) ready to fight Ghidorah, iirc.

[Kaiju no Kami]

I like Ghidorah more because I prefer the spy themed plot over the sci-fi alien invasion one.

[three]

I like Ghidorah more because I prefer the spy themed plot over the sci-fi alien invasion one.

it just feels pointless. the whole time, people are working to assassinate her for a connection to Mars that goes nowhere at all.

it's just something for the humans to do while the monsters fight. it would have been more interesting (and i would not be so blunt about it) if that plot continued in the next movie, but i don't think it does. i may have had this conversation once with Eabaker.

[Kaiju no Kami]

They aren't trying to assassinate her because of her connection to Mars. They are trying to kill her because the old dude in the beginning of the movie wants to rule the country. He killed Salno's father and he wants to kill her.

[Lain Of The Wired]

They aren't trying to assassinate her because of her connection to Mars. They are trying to kill her because the old dude in the beginning of the movie wants to rule the country. He killed Salno's father and he wants to kill her.

Yeah, so that one guy would become ruler of her land.

[Mr. Xeno]

^

it just feels pointless. the whole time, people are working to assassinate her for a connection to Mars that goes nowhere at all.

it's just something for the humans to do while the monsters fight. it would have been more interesting (and i would not be so blunt about it) if that plot continued in the next movie, but i don't think it does. i may have had this conversation once with Eabaker.

Yeah, she just so happened to get possessed right before they tried to blow up her plane. Although it's true that none of the parts of the human plot are necessary to the monster side, it's still interesting enough to pass the time.

But you're totally right about connecting this film more to Astro-Monster. Simply replace every mention of Mars/Venus with Planet X, or, since this film came out first, change Planet X to Mars/Venus, and BOOM, nigh perfect sequel that would have tied in quite well.

[gojira96]

But you're totally right about connecting this film more to Astro-Monster. Simply replace every mention of Mars/Venus with Planet X, or, since this film came out first, change Planet X to Mars/Venus, and BOOM, nigh perfect sequel that would have tied in quite well.

But why would the Venusians/Xians be trying to save the world in one film and then trying to take it over in the next?

[Mr. Xeno]

But you're totally right about connecting this film more to Astro-Monster. Simply replace every mention of Mars/Venus with Planet X, or, since this film came out first, change Planet X to Mars/Venus, and BOOM, nigh perfect sequel that would have tied in quite well.

But why would the Venusians/Xians be trying to save the world in one film and then trying to take it over in the next?

For the same reasons the Xillians initially offered Earth a cure for cancer (or whatever it was they offered). After hearing about Mars/Venus/Planet X from the princess, scientists could have launched a mission to said planet, discovering the race of Xillians, who were the ones that possessed the princess, and the ultimate "twist" near the end where the Xillians turned out to be controlling Ghidorah this whole time can apply to Ghidorah as well: they controlled Ghidorah completely in both movies. It's almost criminally simple in the amount of changes needed.

[edgaguirus]

You link the films pretty well. You'd need to give the Xians prophetic powers, but that would ruin the ending. They'd have known Tetsuo had the weapon that would destroy them, so they'd have killed him outright.

[Mr. Xeno]

You link the films pretty well. You'd need to give the Xians prophetic powers, but that would ruin the ending. They'd have known Tetsuo had the weapon that would destroy them, so they'd have killed him outright.

What prophetic powers? My memory is failing me right now, but I don't recall any prophesying in Ghidorah other than, "Ghidorah will destroy us all!" And that hardly requires any such actual abilities.

[gojira96]

You link the films pretty well. You'd need to give the Xians prophetic powers, but that would ruin the ending. They'd have known Tetsuo had the weapon that would destroy them, so they'd have killed him outright.

What prophetic powers? My memory is failing me right now, but I don't recall any prophesying in Ghidorah other than, "Ghidorah will destroy us all!" And that hardly requires any such actual abilities.

She also prophesied the return of Rodan and Godzilla.

[Mr. Xeno]

She also prophesied the return of Rodan and Godzilla.

That doesn't take a lot of prophesying either (this was Godzilla's fifth movie, after all, and his second film in only a year - it's pretty freaking obvious he's gonna return), but if that's not enough, I should point out that the Xillians in Astro-Monster already knew the locations of Godzilla and Rodan, so it's not that unreasonable that they could, somehow with their advanced technology, predict that both would return.

[NSZ]

Or we could just not take a page from George Lucas' How to Shrink a Universe handbook. It removes the menace of Ghidorah if you strip away his history as a planet killer.

[Mr. Xeno]

Or we could just not take a page from George Lucas' How to Shrink a Universe handbook. It removes the menace of Ghidorah if you strip away his history as a planet killer.

It also removes his menace when he's taken control of by a different group of aliens for each of his remaining appearances in the same era, yet no one ever complains about that aspect of Astro-Monster or DAM (people even use the latter as an example of how powerful Ghidorah can be).

And why can't Ghidorah keep his history as a planet destroyer? The Xillians clearly brought him (and Godzilla and Rodan) under control in between movies, so it could still be possible that Ghidorah wasn't brought under their control until closely before his first appearance, i.e. AFTER he destroyed half the universe.

[NSZ]

And why can't Ghidorah keep his history as a planet destroyer? The Xillians clearly brought him (and Godzilla and Rodan) under control in between movies, so it could still be possible that Ghidorah wasn't brought under their control until closely before his first appearance, i.e. AFTER he destroyed half the universe.

I don't think they got him under their control until after Godzilla and Rodan were brought in, though. During Ghidorah's reveal attack, a water plant gets damaged. It would be dumb as shit of them to risk damage to something that's so dang precious to them. And another thing is, if they were already able to get Ghidorah under their control, why bother requesting for the aide of Godzilla and Rodan? Why the ruse at all? I mean, it's shown right there in the movie that A.) they already knew where Godzilla and Rodan are, B.) the Xians were already on Earth, and C.) their ships can get to Earth completely undetected. If they could get a wild, active, and presumably pissed Ghids under control without help, then they should be able to get the peacefully resting Godzilla and Rodan under their control without anyone noticing.

These guys worship a computer, yeah? Then I should fucking hope that a computer would be able to come up with this plan considering I was able to come up with it myself.

[Mr. Xeno]

I don't think they got him under their control until after Godzilla and Rodan were brought in, though. During Ghidorah's reveal attack, a water plant gets damaged. It would be dumb as shit of them to risk damage to something that's so dang precious to them. And another thing is, if they were already able to get Ghidorah under their control, why bother requesting for the aide of Godzilla and Rodan? Why the ruse at all? I mean, it's shown right there in the movie that A.) they already knew where Godzilla and Rodan are, B.) the Xians were already on Earth, and C.) their ships can get to Earth completely undetected. If they could get a wild, active, and presumably pissed Ghids under control without help, then they should be able to get the peacefully resting Godzilla and Rodan under their control without anyone noticing.

These guys worship a computer, yeah? Then I should fucking hope that a computer would be able to come up with this plan considering I was able to come up with it myself.

Ghidorah is definitively under the Xillians' control for the whole movie. That's why the put the two astronauts into the soundproof bubble after the "Water plant is damaged" message is delivered. I should remind you that the line of dialogue goes: "If we are to maintain control..." *cuts off Glenn and Fuji*

And what you pointed out was actually the biggest plothole in the movie. Even if they didn't have Ghidorah under their control until after Godzilla and Rodan appeared, they still were able to bring Ghidorah (and Godzilla and Rodan) under their control anyway. The rouse was entirely pointless from frame 1 of the film, regardless of what way you interpret it. But that's for another movie's thread.

[NSZ]

Ghidorah is definitively under the Xillians' control for the whole movie. That's why the put the two astronauts into the soundproof bubble after the "Water plant is damaged" message is delivered. I should remind you that the line of dialogue goes: "If we are to maintain control..." *cuts off Glenn and Fuji*

That line about control isn't in the original version, though, it's English dub only, and I don't think I need to point out how unreliable those tend to be.

But you're right, we are getting off topic.

[edgaguirus]

The aliens probably took Godzilla and Rodan as insurance and reinforcements. We know they already had a presence on Earth, and they knew that Godzilla and Rodan once defeated KG. By taking Godzilla and Rodan under control, they take away the monsters capable of stopping KG and ruining their invasion. Taking Godzilla and Rodan also gives them three monsters, which means three times the destructive power. It makes sense to grab Godzilla and Rodan if you consider that.