Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

[Gigantis]

Titanosaurs' fate is an unsolved mystery in universe with no one knowing if he is dead or alive.

Now i have yet to find a source for this, but apparently Tomoyuki Tanaka wrote a book that said Titanosaurus is still alive, and he went back to sleep. Again, have no idea if this is true because i have yet to find a source.

[Terasawa]

Titanosaurs' fate is an unsolved mystery in universe with no one knowing if he is dead or alive.

I bet Robert Stack knows.

[Crazy Jim Films]

The events in the original Mothra, Rodan, and King Kong Escapes are not part of the Showa Godzilla continuity.

Monster Island and Monsterland are one and the same.

Ghidorah didn't die in Destroy All Monsters.

Godzilla and company are fictional characters in the universe of Godzilla's Revenge / All Monsters Attack.

[BlankAccount]

Titanosaurs' fate is an unsolved mystery in universe with no one knowing if he is dead or alive.

Now i have yet to find a source for this, but apparently Tomoyuki Tanaka wrote a book that said Titanosaurus is still alive, and he went back to sleep. Again, have no idea if this is true because i have yet to find a source.

Eh, he's normally a shy, peaceful monster who keeps to himself. So if you need an answer why is isn't on Monster Island or Monsterland (besides the fact those movies were made before his) it's that they probably didn't feel the need to move him when he isn't doing harm.

[Voyager]

Titanosaurs' fate is an unsolved mystery in universe with no one knowing if he is dead or alive.

What? Titanosaurus got a skreeonking hole through his chest. He died.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Titanosaurs' fate is an unsolved mystery in universe with no one knowing if he is dead or alive.

What? Titanosaurus got a skreeonking hole through his chest. He died.

Titantosaurus did not "have a hole in his chest". He was hit by the beam and collapsed into the sea.

While I agree, yes, it does seem to be definitive death, it is equally possible he could have survived (given he had been tanking those beams the WHOLE movie)

[CrimsonBloodX]

The events in the original Mothra, Rodan, and King Kong Escapes are not part of the Showa Godzilla continuity.

Yeah, I don't consider King Kong Escapes to be canon in the Showa Godzilla continuity and I don't understand why anyone would think that. But why do you think the same way about Rodan and Mothra?

Godzilla and company are fictional characters in the universe of Godzilla's Revenge / All Monsters Attack

This is true. All Monster Attack, despite being part of the Showa Godzilla series, is not part of the Showa Godzilla continuity.

[miguelnuva]

The events in the original Mothra, Rodan, and King Kong Escapes are not part of the Showa Godzilla continuity.

I think these are official actually other than maybe Rodan. I think its fans that put the original Mothra and KKE into the showa timeline.

[Terasawa]

What’s “official” per Toho and what the films present don’t necessarily gel.

I never considered the events of Godzilla’s Revenge to occur in our world until I got online, however, I’m not sure the movie suggests one way or the other. (It’s been a while since I’ve seen the Japanese version, and only with the awful Classic Media subs.)

Some Toho-authorized material also states KKE is part of the Showa Godzilla universe but anyone who’s seen the movie knows there’s no way that can be the case.

[Spuro]

The events in the original Mothra, Rodan, and King Kong Escapes are not part of the Showa Godzilla continuity.

I think these are official actually other than maybe Rodan. I think its fans that put the original Mothra and KKE into the showa timeline.

I watched the original Mothra recently and it flat out hints at the existence of other monsters in its universe. Not to mention the characters in MvG know who Mothra is. It's pretty clearly connected.

Infant Island being greener in the original is just a visual inconsistency. Based on my experience with the Universal Frankenstein sequels you get visual inconsistencies with these old movies all the time.

[Gigantis]

The events in the original Mothra, Rodan, and King Kong Escapes are not part of the Showa Godzilla continuity.

KKE yes, but i'm pretty sure it's confirmed the original Mothra and Rodan are confirmed to be in this continuity.

[Crazy Jim Films]

Yeah, I don't consider King Kong Escapes to be canon in the Showa Godzilla continuity and I don't understand why anyone would think that. But why do you think the same way about Rodan and Mothra?

Regarding the continuity, I feel like Rodan has the most argument as intended to be canon, particularly with at least one of them popping up in GTTHM but I feel like the original version doesn’t quite work as well when told in a universe where Godzilla and other monsters have already attacked.

I watched the original Mothra recently and it flat out hints at the existence of other monsters in its universe. Not to mention the characters in MvG know who Mothra is. It's pretty clearly connected.

Given that there are at least a couple versions of each and numerous existing subtitle translations, I would be interested to hear your examples on these. The more I watched Mothra vs. Godzilla, the more it seemed like a bit of a remake of the Mothra story. Any acknowledgment of the existence of Mothra seems to tie more into the “legend” often connected to many of these God-like monsters than to a recollection of the original film’s events.

Infant Island being greener in the original is just a visual inconsistency. Based on my experience with the Universal Frankenstein sequels you get visual inconsistencies with these old movies all the time.

And that is a fine point to be made, if it were merely a visual inconsistency. Obviously, Toho took great creative liberties with both visual consistencies (most notably, Godzilla’s appearance) and geographical aspects from film to film but I never felt the narrative connection here, which is key to me personally. The events of the first film never seem to be a reminder, to either the good-natured humans trying to help the fairies or the fairies themselves, who themselves had been abducted and exploited at the hands of greedy industrialists, of how the events in MvG would play out.

It could arguably treated as canon but my feeling was the point of this thread was for us to bring up certain unique (or not so unique ways) that us, die-hard fans, interpret the rather loose continuity displayed in these films.

[Chrispy_G]

Isn't this a head canon and theory thread? Does it HAVE to gel with the 'word of God' of what Toho says? Isn't the whole point of 'head canon and theory' to just kinda come up with anything that isn't overtly negated in the films?

I don't see why we need "fact checking" on what is ultimately a 'this is the fun way I look at it' thread.

For me personally...when I watch the films in sequence, Mothra and Rodan simply do not fit. I really do perceive it as just being the "Godzilla franchise". The way the introduction of Mothra in MvsG is played does not feel overtly like 'they know who she is' Mothra is proudly introduced by the fairies....and there is not one line of dialogue saying "Yeah we remember that monster" or "Oh yes that monster appeared a few years ago" or "Yeah none of us have forgotten"

It all feels completely implied and inferred that once she is introduced to our main characters, that THEY could have then easily spread the word to any other characters. Word probably travels fast in a world that has dealt with at least 3 monsters prior(Godzilla, Anguirus, King Kong) and people are probably much less likely to be skeptical. A reporter and a bunch of randos say they see a giant moth named Mothra, and a few other civilians corroborate....it probably just gets floated as truth.

Now...the subtitles for Ghidorah use specific terms like "resurrect Rodan" and "Where Rodan resurrected"...but again it feels quite loose. If Rodan is some kind of known legend/ancient beast....it would be no different than saying "A T-Rex is going to resurrect here!" I suppose.

Again....it always feels like the names of these monsters are somewhat casually known, but EVERY other aspect and element of continuity is played as absolutely loose as possible. There are pretty much never specific references to anything that came before.

Regardless of the reasoning for that, that is how it is. I mean...we could say that Ebirah, All Monsters Attack, Hedorah, Gigan, and Megalon are all Ichiro's imagination, or 'movies within movies' or comic-book stories in-universe. The "stock footage" is simply the "fiction" imitating things that happened in "real life" or in other previous pieces of "fiction" featuring the monsters.

I tend to just look at what is in the films in terms of what 'discounts' or 'allows' something, and the films themselves play thing so incredibly loose that it is pretty much an 'anything goes' kind of thing.

[miguelnuva]

Isn't this a head canon and theory thread? Does it HAVE to gel with the 'word of God' of what Toho says? Isn't the whole point of 'head canon and theory' to just kinda come up with anything that isn't overtly negated in the films?

I don't see why we need "fact checking" on what is ultimately a 'this is the fun way I look at it' thread.

For me personally...when I watch the films in sequence, Mothra and Rodan simply do not fit. I really do perceive it as just being the "Godzilla franchise". The way the introduction of Mothra in MvsG is played does not feel overtly like 'they know who she is' Mothra is proudly introduced by the fairies....and there is not one line of dialogue saying "Yeah we remember that monster" or "Oh yes that monster appeared a few years ago" or "Yeah none of us have forgotten"

It all feels completely implied and inferred that once she is introduced to our main characters, that THEY could have then easily spread the word to any other characters. Word probably travels fast in a world that has dealt with at least 3 monsters prior(Godzilla, Anguirus, King Kong) and people are probably much less likely to be skeptical. A reporter and a bunch of randos say they see a giant moth named Mothra, and a few other civilians corroborate....it probably just gets floated as truth.

Now...the subtitles for Ghidorah use specific terms like "resurrect Rodan" and "Where Rodan resurrected"...but again it feels quite loose. If Rodan is some kind of known legend/ancient beast....it would be no different than saying "A T-Rex is going to resurrect here!" I suppose.

Again....it always feels like the names of these monsters are somewhat casually known, but EVERY other aspect and element of continuity is played as absolutely loose as possible. There are pretty much never specific references to anything that came before.

Regardless of the reasoning for that, that is how it is. I mean...we could say that Ebirah, All Monsters Attack, Hedorah, Gigan, and Megalon are all Ichiro's imagination, or 'movies within movies' or comic-book stories in-universe. The "stock footage" is simply the "fiction" imitating things that happened in "real life" or in other previous pieces of "fiction" featuring the monsters.

I tend to just look at what is in the films in terms of what 'discounts' or 'allows' something, and the films themselves play thing so incredibly loose that it is pretty much an 'anything goes' kind of thing.

I agree with your thoughts of Mothra, either way could work. At lot points to Rodan having been around before as he mentions humans have always hated him.

[Terasawa]

Rodan also appears from the same volcano they were trapped in in 1956. It seems pretty clear to me that they were referencing the original film, which had been a big enough hit that audiences would have remembered it after eight years.

However, is it necessary to have seen Rodan or Mothra or even any of the prior Godzilla movies? No.

[The Octopus]

Monster Island and Monsterland are one and the same.

Monster Island is one island in the "far away South Pacific".
Monsterland is a chain of islands off the coast of Japan. (Ogasawra Islands)

[SoggyNoodles2016]

About the Revenge discussion: I am 99% sure there's a line where Ichiro's friend says "How do you know what he sounds like? You've never even seen him!" about his Minilla impression, which is bascially confirmation it takes place in the Showa universe

[The Octopus]

^Could also mean he never saw him because he doesn't exist. I don't know what Cthulhu sounds like because I've never seen him.

[Terasawa]

^Could also mean he never saw him because he doesn't exist. I don't know what Cthulhu sounds like because I've never seen him.

Yes, but if there were Cthulhu movies as there are Minya movies then you could possibly know what it sounds like.

That line could also be interpreted to mean that Ichiro has never seen the movies with Minya in them. He might only know the character from Godzilla toys and/or manga.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

^Could also mean he never saw him because he doesn't exist. I don't know what Cthulhu sounds like because I've never seen him.

Yes, but if there were Cthulhu movies as there are Minya movies then you could possibly know what it sounds like.

That line could also be interpreted to mean that Ichiro has never seen the movies with Minya in them. He might only know the character from Godzilla toys and/or manga.

I feel like that's a pretty big strech, imo. Like, why would you imitate something that doesn't exist? And how do you be the biggest fan of a character and NOT see the films he's in?

I feel like there is an argument to be made but personally the "Revenge takes place in our world and Ichiro is a kaiju film fan theory" to always been on of those theories that people make that doesn't really work but there's no evidence really disproving it.