I'll say. Superman once got his ass handed to him by an evil dentist.Living Corpse wrote: Even Superman {snip} the "gods of being invincible" have lost fights..
Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Godzilla isn't King of the Monsters because he never loses, he's King of the Monsters because even with the losses and draws counted, his wins in the win/lose record is impressive. Even the greatest boxers and martial artist in the world have losses under their belts but the wins probably outnumber those losses by a lot.
And I think that's what makes him great, he doesn't give up because he lost, he just gets up and moves on to the next battle.
And I think that's what makes him great, he doesn't give up because he lost, he just gets up and moves on to the next battle.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Look at it like this. Godzilla once lost to planes causing an avalanche. Human weapons ,things weaker than Mothra, took Godzilla out. Mothra, meanwhile, is a kaiju, and a respectable one at that.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Yeah I think a lot of the teens here are too focused on Godzilla's strength and ignoring the fact that the larva used strategy to down him. Strategy counts for a lot. This was the humanoid intelligenced godzilla of the 70s. He was still a big dumb animal at this point.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Exactly.Dannybeane wrote:Yeah I think a lot of the teens here are too focused on Godzilla's strength and ignoring the fact that the larva used strategy to down him. Strategy counts for a lot. This was the humanoid intelligenced godzilla of the 70s. He was still a big dumb animal at this point.
While strength plays a part in combat, it isn't everything. There's more to combat than just being stronger. Rocky would face boxers much stronger and faster than him and still win (usually) because he specialized in two things they didn't. Durability and stamina. This dude would get his ass kicked and just keep getting back up, eventually his opponent would be so tired from wailing on him that they can barely defend themselves from Rocky's onslaught.
A fictional example I know, but there are boxers like that who exist in real life. And in martial arts fights we see sometimes the strongest lose to someone weaker. Why? Because the guy is just too fast to hit. All the power in the world is useless when your enemy is fast enough to block and dodge every attack or smart enough to deflect your attacks or use your own weight and momentum against you.
When Godzilla was being wrapped up in webbing there wasn't much he could do, his arms were being restrained, he can't see and the stuff is being piled on top of him faster than he can burn it off, and each layer adds more weight. Mothra managed to beat him without killing him or harming him, how many can say they did that?
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Which is entirely appropriate, since, after all, we are talking about storytelling choices made for emotional and thematic reasons, not about realism.Living Corpse wrote:A fictional example I know
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Godzilla did kill one of the larvae. Not immediately, but it's stated at the beginning of Ghidorah TTHM that one died shortly after it's fight with Godzilla. Probably the one that got fucking wrecked and slammed around once it got close.LegendZilla wrote:Less controversy could've been triggered if he had at least killed ONE of the Mothra larvae. Another route Toho could've taken is if maybe Godzilla retreated on his own accord.
I never saw Godzilla losing as bad, however, I don't even consider it a loss. More like a stalemate. MOTHRA won, in that Godzilla was repelled, and one of them survived, as well as saving Japan from Godzilla temporarily but still in the end one died.
But IMO, the part of the fandom that always builds up Godzilla, HES DA KING, really irks me. So whatever. If they want to be pissed about it let them be. The ending by itself, if we don't count the sequel is a win.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Godzilla losing to anyone is fine. I've never understood the big deal.
Here's what I don't get. If something was powerful enough to take on Godzilla, and come out alive, shouldn't that be considered, I dunno..impressive? Why is it something that pisses people off? I don't know how many times I've had to hear the "I just hate how Godzilla lost to two dumb caterpillars" or "a dumb monkey"-complaint.
Here's what I don't get. If something was powerful enough to take on Godzilla, and come out alive, shouldn't that be considered, I dunno..impressive? Why is it something that pisses people off? I don't know how many times I've had to hear the "I just hate how Godzilla lost to two dumb caterpillars" or "a dumb monkey"-complaint.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
The fun part about that is neither Mothra or Kong are dumb caterpillars or a dumb monkey. They're giant kaiju with all sorts of supernatural powers. Godzilla losing was never a big deal. But I agree with the sentiment that it's impressive.Goji wrote:Godzilla losing to anyone is fine. I've never understood the big deal.
Here's what I don't get. If something was powerful enough to take on Godzilla, and come out alive, shouldn't that be considered, I dunno..impressive? Why is it something that pisses people off? I don't know how many times I've had to hear the "I just hate how Godzilla lost to two dumb caterpillars" or "a dumb monkey"-complaint.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
You know the sort of people this fandom is comprised of. Do you really have to ask this question?Goji wrote:Godzilla losing to anyone is fine. I've never understood the big deal.
Here's what I don't get. If something was powerful enough to take on Godzilla, and come out alive, shouldn't that be considered, I dunno..impressive? Why is it something that pisses people off?
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
They just say it died when the little boy asked where the other one was. They never said it died because of Godzilla. They were never clear on how it died. I think the reason is, is that they cared about continuity in those early films and realized that they didn't need the second caterpillar for Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster, so they simply said "Uhhh the other one died. Now lets concentrate on the rest of the story".LSD Jellyfish wrote:Godzilla did kill one of the larvae. Not immediately, but it's stated at the beginning of Ghidorah TTHM that one died shortly after it's fight with Godzilla. Probably the one that got skreeonking wrecked and slammed around once it got close..
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
So i think its safe to say the other one maybe died from radition poisoning? Or maybe it randomly blew up?LSD Jellyfish wrote:Godzilla did kill one of the larvae. Not immediately, but it's stated at the beginning of Ghidorah TTHM that one died shortly after it's fight with Godzilla. Probably the one that got skreeonking wrecked and slammed around once it got close.LegendZilla wrote:Less controversy could've been triggered if he had at least killed ONE of the Mothra larvae. Another route Toho could've taken is if maybe Godzilla retreated on his own accord.
I never saw Godzilla losing as bad, however, I don't even consider it a loss. More like a stalemate. MOTHRA won, in that Godzilla was repelled, and one of them survived, as well as saving Japan from Godzilla temporarily but still in the end one died.
But IMO, the part of the fandom that always builds up Godzilla, HES DA KING, really irks me. So whatever. If they want to be pissed about it let them be. The ending by itself, if we don't count the sequel is a win.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
We can theorize until we're blue in the face, but we'll never know for sure. Death by battle wounds is as plausible as any explanation.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
I never bought the argument that the caterpillar died after the fight with Godzilla because it looked none the worse for wear when it was swimming home with its twin at the end of the film. And the larvae received even more punishment being blasted around by Ghidorah's bolts in Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster.
I believe TOHO just didn't need the second larvae for the Ghidorah' story and simply said "Uuuh it died. Hows that?"
My theory is, is that the adult created 2 larvae through the egg because she knew that one wouldn't be enough to stop Godzilla. The larvae's stopped Godzilla. When they returned home, the second larvae was no longer needed and simply expired passing its life force on to its twin.
But then again that my theory. Its never been explained anywhere.
I believe TOHO just didn't need the second larvae for the Ghidorah' story and simply said "Uuuh it died. Hows that?"
My theory is, is that the adult created 2 larvae through the egg because she knew that one wouldn't be enough to stop Godzilla. The larvae's stopped Godzilla. When they returned home, the second larvae was no longer needed and simply expired passing its life force on to its twin.
But then again that my theory. Its never been explained anywhere.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Why the fuck do you think only one showed up in Ghidrah the Three Headed Monster. Even the fairies said 'One died'.LegendZilla wrote:Less controversy could've been triggered if he had at least killed ONE of the Mothra larvae. Another route Toho could've taken is if maybe Godzilla retreated on his own accord.
Imagine getting angry your out of date and obsolete stats for rubber suit monsters were 'stolen'.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
I mentioned it in another thread (think it was the MvG general discussion thread) that I noticed the atomic ray left visible injuries on one of the Larva. It's kind of hard to see, though.MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: So i think its safe to say the other one maybe died from radition poisoning? Or maybe it randomly blew up?
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Those are two separate movies; this conversation is about Mothra vs. Godzilla's ending, and ret-con doesn't actually alter the earlier work.LamangoKaijura wrote:Why the fuck do you think only one showed up in Ghidrah the Three Headed Monster. Even the fairies said 'One died'.LegendZilla wrote:Less controversy could've been triggered if he had at least killed ONE of the Mothra larvae. Another route Toho could've taken is if maybe Godzilla retreated on his own accord.
Regardless... Ugh, this thread.
Godzilla losing to Mothra is not only "not THAT bad," it is, in fact, the opposite of bad; it is good.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
Oh really? Thats coolKaiju-King42 wrote:I mentioned it in another thread (think it was the MvG general discussion thread) that I noticed the atomic ray left visible injuries on one of the Larva. It's kind of hard to see, though.MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: So i think its safe to say the other one maybe died from radition poisoning? Or maybe it randomly blew up?
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For unique discussions on Ultraman, Godzilla, and much more check out my channel Tiger Drop Films: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCng0uL ... VCg/videos
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
A movie that happens months after the whole Mothra vs Godzilla.eabaker wrote:Those are two separate movies; this conversation is about Mothra vs. Godzilla's ending, and ret-con doesn't actually alter the earlier work.LamangoKaijura wrote:Why the skreeonk do you think only one showed up in Ghidrah the Three Headed Monster. Even the fairies said 'One died'.LegendZilla wrote:Less controversy could've been triggered if he had at least killed ONE of the Mothra larvae. Another route Toho could've taken is if maybe Godzilla retreated on his own accord.
Regardless... Ugh, this thread.
Godzilla losing to Mothra is not only "not THAT bad," it is, in fact, the opposite of bad; it is good.
Imagine getting angry your out of date and obsolete stats for rubber suit monsters were 'stolen'.
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Re: Godzilla losing to Mothra: Is it THAT bad?
I love how people think this thread was meant to bash the ending. I even said I enjoyed the ending lmao.
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