Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

[Spuro]

So I was watching MvG just now, and noticed for the first time that one of the larva gets visibly injured by a grazing shot from the atomic breath. Nasty looking burn down the left side of its head. Can't believe I never noticed it before.

Think I figured out why one of the larva died between that movie and GTTHH.

[edgaguirus]

I haven't noticed that either. When do you see it?

[Ookondru99]

I really enjoy this movie, although I do think it is somewhat overrated. Godzilla suit is good, but not my favorite design. Mothra portrayed at her best here. The human cast is memorable and do a good job. I also really dig the military's plans for stopping godzilla, including the Frontier Missile scene (US version only). Some of the shots like godzilla appearing out of the dirt, or the military bombing godzilla from a distance as they drive him to the Lightning Generators. Both fights are fine. I'm not a huge fan of the Mothra character amongst Toho's kaiju cast, and godzilla stumbles around like he's drunk in a good number of his shots. Definitely a classic from the golden age, but I enjoy KKvG more.

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

So I was watching MvG just now, and noticed for the first time that one of the larva gets visibly injured by a grazing shot from the atomic breath. Nasty looking burn down the left side of its head. Can't believe I never noticed it before.

Think I figured out why one of the larva died between that movie and GTTHH.

I haven't noticed that either. When do you see it?

I checked my DVD of it. you can see it after the second Mothra emerges from its little cave. It cuts to a shot of the other larvae, and it does indeed have a painful looking bruise over its left side.

[edgaguirus]

Thanks.

[eabaker]

I watched the dubbed Godzilla vs. the Thing version last night for the first time in... I have no idea how many years. More than a decade, I suspect.

The technical quality of the dubbing really is quite good. It's scripted and performed to match the lip movements very accurately, and the voice actors are really taking their jobs seriously. I can forgive the use of the term "The Thing," because I find it kind of endearing and silly. But I had forgotten about those bizarre attempts at Japanese accents. If it weren't for the context - if you just heard some of those lines in isolation - there'd be nothing to suggest that they were going for "Japanese." Where did they come up with the pronunciation "Modra," for Christ's sake???

[Space Hunter M]

Where did they come up with the pronunciation "Modra," for Christ's sake???

This pronunciation carries over into the German dub. They usually use either "Mott-ra" or "Moss-ra" in dubbing. I think the spelling might be in the dubbing script even though it's still "Mothra" in some AIP publicity material.

[Spuro]

I watched the dubbed Godzilla vs. the Thing version last night for the first time in... I have no idea how many years. More than a decade, I suspect.

The technical quality of the dubbing really is quite good. It's scripted and performed to match the lip movements very accurately, and the voice actors are really taking their jobs seriously. I can forgive the use of the term "The Thing," because I find it kind of endearing and silly. But I had forgotten about those bizarre attempts at Japanese accents. If it weren't for the context - if you just heard some of those lines in isolation - there'd be nothing to suggest that they were going for "Japanese." Where did they come up with the pronunciation "Modra," for Christ's sake???

I may be in the minority here, but for the scene where the main characters are trying to convince the Infant Islanders to help save Japan, I actually prefer the dialogue in the dub. It was always had more impact to me than the sub's rambling about God (why would the Infant Islanders care about that if they worship Mothra?).

[ZeppandonConfirmed]

One of my personal favorites in the Showa Era! I would say it's my fourth favorite in said era. Everything about this film just works in my opinion. The characters were well implemented into the film in my opinion, the soundtrack is one of Ifukube's greatest, and the monster scenes were very good for their time, and still look perfectly fine today! I'm glad that this film gets the love it deserves. It's definitely a great monster flick!

[Zarm]

Mothra vs. Godzilla, a battle for the ages, is a short affair- and in many ways, Godzilla is a latecomer to the precedings. Still, in many ways, this film delivers on all levels as the title bout with Kong didn’t, giving us a story worth investing in and decent human characters among the monster action.

Which isn’t to say this is the most gripping of tales. In many ways, the story feels over-familiar; the reporter elements feel like a retread of Mothra, with the greedy businesspeople managing to strike both the goofiness of Vs. Kong and the dark violence of the original Mothra. Heck, they even dig the exact same big ‘ol pit from vs. King Kong; if it wasn’t reused footage, it was pretty darn similar. Thus, the story feels like a greatest hits pastiche, and thus not the most original or compelling… but it is still watchable.

Ichiro and Yuriko at least feel like more of an equal footing than the pair from Mothra, and while Ichiro is no Tenn-Chan, the duo are both likable protagonists. The professor rounds out the trio nicely; a bit more nondescript that the protagonists of either Raids Again or the original Mothra, but still a step above the virtual-nonentities of vs. Kong.

The villains, meanwhile, are an odd pairing- a cartoonishly evil, Kong-style tycoon partnered with a cold-blooded creep in the Nelson mold. Their end is shockingly gratuitous, with a bloody beating, a visible gunshot wound through the head, and a building brought down on them; the over-the-top darkness of their demise is a bit jarring in context with the rest of the film’s tone.

The kaiju look pretty great, meanwhile- with Godzilla in excellent Showa shape and Mothra looking, perhaps, a bit appropriately haggard, but in great shape for a believable match-up. The use of undercranked, sped-up fight footage is even more distracting here than it was in Raids Again, unfortunately, but there is enough material outside of that for the fight to still be a great one, really top-notch. The caterpillars look pretty good, too, and while their approach to the island and cat-and-mouse with Godzilla probably goes on a bit long, it is still a satisfying climax to the ongoing storyline.

The film looks gorgeous- that seems to be a theme with Mothra movies- visually lush, and with impressive special effects. The choice to bluescreen Godzilla into real locations more than using miniatures, which made Godzilla Millennium so notable, is in proto-form here, and while the composited Godzilla is a bit blurry and indistinct, the effect is well-realized and striking, lending a believability to the Godzilla rampage that the Showa series had yet to achieve. It’s especially effective when intercut with matching miniatures; an excellent sequence.

In fact, most of the visuals are fantastic. The egg is mostly well-realized (there are a few dodgy compositing shots), the animated lightning has a striking (no pun intended) visual look, and the miniatures are generally strong, especially the planes. There are a few dodgy effects- melting rocks portrayed by what looks like a deflating beach ball was extremely laughable, for instance- but overall, this is a definite pinnacle for the vfx in the series.

The music is excellent, reusing familiar themes in a perfect matchup of the new and the familiar; a classic kaiju score as lush as the visuals.

I have to say, though, that this film may feature a Godzilla defeat strategy that looks even more ludicrous than creating a satellite to shoot black holes at the Earth; three waves of nets dropped in succession from a quartet of helicopters is really hard to take seriously.

Overall, this film is a deserved classic- entertaining, great looking, with a high level of craftsmanship and execution, and both storyline and characters that, while not the best the series has to offer, are definitely more engaging than their direct predecessor, and the majority of the efforts to-date.

[Ivo-goji]

Recently watched Mothra and Godzilla vs the Thing back to back. I'm impressed by how much the special effects work had improved in the later film. MvsG is probably the best looking entry in the Showa series. Mothra had some decent effects itself, but the military attack sequences and most of the minatures pale in comparison to its sequel. Though I must say the original Mothra props look much better than those used in MvsG, especially the first generation larva (by far my favorite design for Mothra's larval stage). Infant Island was in better shape in its first appearance too, although I dig the elaborate costumes the natives get in MvsG.

The frontier missile sequence in Godzilla vs the Thing is awesome, the American version is worth watching just for that. In a way it's appropriate to give Godzilla top billing here since some of the footage dealing with Mothra's egg subplot is replaced with that sequence, making the plot feel more focused on Godzilla. Conversely the Japanese version very much feels like a Mothra movie with Godzilla co-staring.

That might be why Godzilla acts so vulnerable in this movie. Most of the destruction he causes seems accidental, both of the military's plans to take him down are close calls, and when the adult Mothra shows up Godzilla gets his butt handed to him for most of the fight (and no wonder, Showa Mothra is so freaking BIG). The film still does a good job of conveying how powerful and threatening Godzilla is though, so these details don't hurt his cred one bit.

I do agree with the general consensus that Godzilla vs the Thing has a good dub, both in terms of the script and the voice acting, but I largely prefer the Japanese version. However, I do wish that frontier missile footage could be edited into the original film.

[Mr_Goji_and_Watch]

There are some really good effects in this movie, but some of the shots with the Mothra larvae are pretty bad. When one of the larvae bites down on Godzilla's tail and he swings them around, it really looks like the prop has torn holes between the segments. I'm pretty sure you can see the wheels on the prop when the larvae first land on the island. It could just be that the DVD transfer isn't the best.

Oh and it really sucks how the The Thing version wasn't preserved very well but there's probably nothing we can do since the fandom cares more about toys than the movies themselves most of the time.

[Legion1979]

What does fans enjoying toys have to do with American versions of these movies being preserved? Official restorations of these films are out of our hands, so does it really matter what our priorities are?

[Ivo-goji]

The lower film quality for Godzilla vs the Thing does bug me, but I'm not surprised. American companies in that day rarely appreciated the importance of film preservation for their own movies, much less for edited foreign works. Exhaustive restorations of such films are beyond the scope of the DVD releases we get in the West (and the Japanese versions are, after all, already griven the necessary attention in their home country's DVD releases). We're lucky to have both versions available as it is.

[Terasawa]

I would not be surprised if there are good elements for the U.S. version in storage somewhere. It's just not accessible by Toho or (ugh) Classic Media. Hell, even a modern scan of the element Monsters HD used would be better than the shit we have on DVD.

[godzilla5417]

I think this is the first-objectively good Godzilla movie that stands well against the test of time.

[skuzzy-punk-kid]

It's been a long time since I've frequented this forum. My observations, prior to watching the Japanese version of King Kong vs. Godzilla, were noticing the theme that has been rather consistent up until Terror of MechaGodzilla. The theme I'm speaking about is labeled the "Godzilla March" (according to the opening credits of Mothra vs. Godzilla). My observation was that Mothra vs. Godzilla was the 1st movie where this theme was used. It was only a year ago when I watched the Japanese version of King Kong vs. Godzilla, and I heard the theme used there...although with a slightly different arrangement. If this is the same composition, then I will stand corrected with my observation.
My questions:
-Does this conflict with the "Godzilla March" from Godzilla vs. Gigan?
-If this composition is not named the "Godzilla March," what is the name of it?
-Does this composition have a different name than the "Godzilla Theme" if at all?

[Lain Of The Wired]

In hindsight, the main cast really didn't do jack shit to give the egg back, if a manga artist and a couple hippies managed to talk to the self defense force in Gigan, I don't see how a group of newspaper editors couldn't have somehow got a meeting with someone higher up to inform them that the egg belonged to Mothra, and since the events of Mothra 1961 are canon in the series, that'd it'd probably be in the countries best interest to give the egg back before momma Mothra came flying in and wrecked everyone's shit again...
Or, how was no one worried that it could hatch at anytime? The government had no intentions on letting a pharmaceutical company bring Kong into Japan, so I like how they could care less about a couple of showman harboring a baby Mothra...

[szmigiel]

The government and military lack of interest in the egg in the first act has always been a bit puzzling. A scene where we see Happy Enterprises bribing a government official to stay away would of helped, but that might be to cynical for the time.

I also feel that the end where they need to rescue the children on the island while Godzilla battle the twins, always felt like it was added just to give the main characters something more to do during the climax.

[eabaker]

The government and military lack of interest in the egg in the first act has always been a bit puzzling. A scene where we see Happy Enterprises bribing a government official to stay away would of helped, but that might be to cynical for the time.

This, to me, really comes down to how broad Sekizawa's satire tended to play. He's not going for realism here, he's making a very exaggerated point about bureaucratic apathy and impotence.

I also feel that the end where they need to rescue the children on the island while Godzilla battle the twins, always felt like it was added just to give the main characters something more to do during the climax.

This has always been my one major complaint. Once Mothra has agreed to help, the human cast basically become irrelevant to the narrative, and rescuing the kids from the island is unmistakably false drama.