Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

[Joseph Goodman]

So it has the "Commence Plan C" shot, too? How do the opening titles begin? From what I've read, the proper AIP cut opens with the cymbals and other percussion of the title music over a black screen, with the opening brass of the title music hitting as the AIP logo appears. Is this correct?

[Space Hunter M]

So it has the "Commence Plan C" shot, too? How do the opening titles begin? From what I've read, the proper AIP cut opens with the cymbals and other percussion of the title music over a black screen, with the opening brass of the title music hitting as the AIP logo appears. Is this correct?

Yes, the end of the U.S. reel 4 is intact. It begins about the same as the MonstersHD/Classic Media master (the Simitar letterbox master still has the most frames for the title sequence. The Australian DVD has a digital fade-in). No black screen. An early '80s Beta capture of a 16mm TV airing has no such "overture", either.

[ThunderScore]

No black screen. An '80s Beta capture of a TV airing has no such "overture", either.

Is it possible that something like that might've been edited out for time?

[Space Hunter M]

No black screen. An '80s Beta capture of a TV airing has no such "overture", either.

Is it possible that something like that might've been edited out for time?

I put forward the theory the flat print master source never had the black screen to begin with. It's possible only the theatrical version had it, and as it stands, no master of an original 35mm release print is commercially available. Could have been on anamorphic 16mm prints, though. To be fair however, the airing in question does physically cut out some violence from the print.

Incidentally, the Latin American Spanish dub of Frankenstein Conquers the World has the Toho logo music with a voice over announcing American International Television prior to the theatrical logo, but I have no visual source for this dub.

[Mothralover1997]

An underrated thing about this movie is that it incorporates subtle themes about the social changes and economic culture in Japan at the time without pounding you over the head with it, as later films often would.

[Rodan]

An underrated thing about this movie is that it incorporates subtle themes about the social changes and economic culture in Japan at the time without pounding you over the head with it, as later films often would.

Very much so. I'm not sure that's an "underrated" aspect though. It's kind of the pinnacle monster-movies-continuing-to-offer-social-commentary script of the more light-hearted sequels.

[Godzillian]

I know this gonna sound elitist and like an old man but it makes me sad newer and younger G-fans find this movie slow and boring. It really is one of the best Godzilla films created at the peak of the franchises Golden Era.

[Bigdog]

I know this gonna sound elitist and like an old man but it makes me sad newer and younger G-fans find this movie slow and boring. It really is one of the best Godzilla films created at the peak of the franchises Golden Era.

This is my favorite out of all the films aside from the ones I listed as my favorites. And I'm on the younger side.

[Captain Aktion]

I know this gonna sound elitist and like an old man but it makes me sad newer and younger G-fans find this movie slow and boring. It really is one of the best Godzilla films created at the peak of the franchises Golden Era.

This is my favorite out of all the films aside from the ones I listed as my favorites. And I'm on the younger side.

Yeah. I know this is hard for some people to understand but the age of an individual is probably the least important factor involved with this. I'll guarantee that if there's somebody out there who refuses to watch a film based on its age then their own home is/was devoid of any of those types of films as well. My mother had a healthy love for classic film and one the most tuned to channels growing up was AMC (back when that meant something, you damn whippersnappers!) and would talk to me excitedly about them. Y'know, engage me with them. I lucked out but it wasn't really because I was more mature than kids my age, I just had a wonderful reason to watch those films and someone to watch them with. She hated Godzilla stuff but since I grew up on Universal's classic monsters and King Kong as well, the age of the Godzilla films meant exactly nothing to me.

And if I had a reason then I can only imagine there's millions of reasons out there for people of any age to watch and enjoy any vintage.

[Pkmatrix]

Yeah. I know this is hard for some people to understand but the age of an individual is probably the least important factor involved with this. I'll guarantee that if there's somebody out there who refuses to watch a film based on its age then their own home is/was devoid of any of those types of films as well. My mother had a healthy love for classic film and one the most tuned to channels growing up was AMC (back when that meant something, you damn whippersnappers!) and would talk to me excitedly about them. Y'know, engage me with them. I lucked out but it wasn't really because I was more mature than kids my age, I just had a wonderful reason to watch those films and someone to watch them with. She hated Godzilla stuff but since I grew up on Universal's classic monsters and King Kong as well, the age of the Godzilla films meant exactly nothing to me.

And if I had a reason then I can only imagine there's millions of reasons out there for people of any age to watch and enjoy any vintage.

Yep, this is 100% correct. Age has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of people under 20 who enjoy older films, but they are people who either:

1. Have developed a genuine interest in film and/or fandom for a franchise/director with older films; or...

2. Grew up in a household with relatives with either an interest in film, or took the time to share with them the films they enjoyed when they were younger.

I think a lot of the posters I see on this and other sites bemoaning how young people don't appreciate older movies don't realize how ABSOLUTELY RARE either of the above are. As a child, I knew exactly zero people who fell into either of the above categories, and now as adults I know maybe one person from high school who is willing to watch or likes any movies older than themselves (about 30 years old).

People with similar interests tend to group together. All my friends are film fans, we all watch movies older than ourselves and make a point of doing so. It's the same thing with everyone here. You just need to realize, and accept, that this is not common (or, hell, even considered normal) for the most part. And it probably won't be until Cinema is considered as important a subject to teach kids as Literature or Poetry.

[Space Hunter M]

Mothra vs. Godzilla sucks because Godzilla lost to a pair of mobile long john donuts.
///thread

[Joseph Goodman]

So, what's the deal with all the video releases of the Japanese cut being from a dupe? Did it suffer the same fate as KKvsG, with the negative getting chopped up to make the Champion Festival edit?

[Space Hunter M]

So, what's the deal with all the video releases of the Japanese cut being from a dupe? Did it suffer the same fate as KKvsG, with the negative getting chopped up to make the Champion Festival edit?

Yeah, that's also what happened to Monster Zero (the first tape release of the latter was the edited version since they didn't find the foreign neg again until '86 or so). The Mothra vs. Godzilla OCN now corresponds to either the 1970 Champion Festival version or the 1980 reissue. The footage from recent 4K remastering featurette that aired last summer is much more vibrant, though. I assume they scanned the negative again for the 70-ish minutes and patched all the missing parts with the dupe element.

You can tell the edited versions are the camera negative since they lack a lot of finalized color gradings seen in the dupe (the longshot of Mothra leaving the hilltop is bright as day in the edits).

86 LD (what the dupe looks like without any correction):

92 LD (the Champion Festival cut):

90s LD:


1980 edit:

BD with some adjustments:

When you try to extract any vibrancy from the dupe element you just get unnatural looking reds or blues instead as opposed to the richer palette of the negative.

[Joseph Goodman]

So, what's the deal with all the video releases of the Japanese cut being from a dupe? Did it suffer the same fate as KKvsG, with the negative getting chopped up to make the Champion Festival edit?

Yeah, that's also what happened to Monster Zero (the first tape release of the latter was the edited version since they didn't find the foreign neg again until '86 or so). The Mothra vs. Godzilla OCN now corresponds to either the 1970 Champion Festival version or the 1980 reissue. The footage from recent 4K remastering featurette that aired last summer is much more vibrant, though. I assume they scanned the negative again for the 70-ish minutes and patched all the missing parts with the dupe element.

.

I think they only scanned one minute each from the bulk of the films; only the first one got a full scan and restoration:
http://www.stereosound.co.jp/review/art ... 34660.html

What are some of the major cuts to the short version of Mothra vs. Godzilla?

[Space Hunter M]

What are some of the major cuts to the short version of Mothra vs. Godzilla?

Going by the 1970 edit. The '80 cut is even shorter. Haven't given it a full watch.

Lots of dialogue in reel 1. No "A good politician never lies!", no dialogue with the priest on the beach, no discussion with Prof. Miura prior to Kumayama's arrival, no dialogue between Sakai and Junko at the hotel, the scene with Torahata begins with Kumayama already in the room.

In reel 2, those establishing shots of the Happy Center that get cut in the AIP version are also snipped, as is the scene with Kumayama handing out flyers (the headlines are intact, though). The phone conversation with Kumayama and Torahata is excised.

The entire scene in the office prior to the visit to Miura's lab at the end of reel 2 is also cut. In reel 3, the entire suspense of Godzilla's entrance is ruined by cutting straight to the death-ray coming out of the ground after the politician orders the science team to leave. The film also cuts straight to the official handing the commander a report after Godzilla destroys Nagoya Castle. The following office scene cuts straight to Nakamura's arrival, ends with Jun Tazaki banging his fist on the table, and overlays some dialogue onto the in-between segment footage of the incubator.

The entire scene on the shore of Infant Island is cut, cutting straight from the establishing shot of the island to the beginning of reel 4 inside the cave. The scene with the commander explaining the ABC plan ends right before the reporters starting asking questions. The scene with Torahata and Kumayama starts with Kumayama already in the room.

The evacuation of Shizunoura cuts the principal struggling through the crowd to the boat and arguing with the captain (the scene begins with the police officer showing up), and sandwiches the scene with the teacher escorting the children at the foot of the hill to before Godzilla's appearance in the village.

Haven't really wagered how much is cut from the final battle exactly, but I know a few shots after Godzilla kicking some rocks before the protagonists arrive at the cave are cut.

[Joseph Goodman]

That sounds like a brutal clipjob. Which video release has which edit (the 1970/1980 cuts, that is)?

[Space Hunter M]

That sounds like a brutal clipjob. Which video release has which edit (the 1970/1980 cuts, that is)?

The Godzilla Death Battle Chronicle LD set from '92 has the '70 edit, the R2 DVD has the '80 edit.

[Baradagi]

How do the opening titles begin? From what I've read, the proper AIP cut opens with the cymbals and other percussion of the title music over a black screen, with the opening brass of the title music hitting as the AIP logo appears. Is this correct?

From AIP documents I have:

1 START MARK and FRAMED LEADER 12-00

2 CUT IN from black - MUSIC IN-BLOWING SEA
EXT. STORMY SEA - DAY - FS - Holding the stormy sea as the wind blows and the waves crash, TITLE SUPERIMPOSING IN reading: AMERICAN (CAPITOL DOME) INTERNATIONAL PICTURES

Etc...

No black screen. An '80s Beta capture of a TV airing has no such "overture", either.

Is it possible that something like that might've been edited out for time?

Good point, ThunderScore. My ‘80s television recording starts with roughly 10 seconds of black screen with just the opening brass playing. The remaining score matches with the MonstersHD/Classic Media and Australian VHS release from Video Distributors International.

[Joseph Goodman]

I suppose someone with more free time than I could try and view AIP's copyright print at the Library of Congress, to nail this bit of minutae down*. However, they appear to be a lot stricter about granting access to such things now, as compared to when they let me view the FCTW copyright print fifteen years ago... back then, the conversation literally went:

Me: "I'm going to write about it on the internet. Can I view it?"
Them: "Okay"


*They have a listing for it from their pre-internet catalog, which doesn't neccesarily mean they still have it. FCTW was an identical sitaution, but they did still have it.

[Lain Of The Wired]

I remember being a big fan of this one when i was a kid, watching it on a recorded TNT Monster Vision marathon I had on VHS.
I remember loving host segments with Grandpa from the Munsters, he had the cheesiest Godzilla puns.
Still today it's a favorite of mine, loved Mothra, and loved the Godzilla suit.
The vintage Toho scifi movies were always my favorites, even as a kid. I guess it's because I grew up watching them as a kid.
I wasn't the type that got into cartoons when I was really little, I liked Godzilla movies, and the odd but really unique way the Showa series's props, puppets, and suits always caught my attention more than the Heisei and the Millenium movies, although I don't think I watched many of those until I was like 8 or 9.