Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

[Giga Kaiju]

The second Godzilla film I've watched. One of the most memorable in terms of content and nostalgia I have in the series.

[Godzilla The King]

This has always been one of my favorite Showa films, I just find it such a good film. I just need to watch it again, I haven't watched a Godzilla film in a while and it's honestly bothering me.

[Kaiju no Kami]

This has always been one of my favorite Showa films, I just find it such a good film. I just need to watch it again, I haven't watched a Godzilla film in a while and it's honestly bothering me.

I know that feeling. I had about 2-3 years recently where I went by without watching a single Godzilla movie. I just didn't have the time to watch one because I was distracted with other things and life. I made up for it though by watching the whole series in 2014 and then reviewing them this year. Not to mention I have watched Mothra vs, GTTHM, and Invasion of Astro-Monster 3 times this year.

[Dannybeane]

Mvs G and GtTHM are two films I can almost always watch. About as close to two perfect films as you can get imo!

[GigaBowserG]

Shooting location from the movie, then and now. Something fascinating about this. Sometimes I forget random shots like this are from actual Japanese areas.



(sourced)

[Giga Kaiju]

Interesting. Nice recognition of that area in the movie.

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

Never mind

[Rodan]

Watched this again today. It's so good.

I love this movie. In fact, I think it's very nearly a perfect film (even outside of my affection for the genre) for about two-thirds of it. I've always thought it was quite good, but on this last viewing, it blew me away. It's so charming and amazingly biting for what amounts to a blockbuster spectacle film. It's also a shame many people stateside must have been introduced to it through 4:3 video releases and TV airings, because it's gorgeously filmed and makes use of its super-wide 2.55:1 aspect ratio at all times. Props to Ishiro Honda, because this movie is amazingly well directed. So many beautiful scenes.

I really only have three misgivings with it, though unfortunately they end up being rather large ones.

1) The human scenes are so compelling and bold, as far as what they tackle, that the movie actually feels somewhat distracted when Godzilla appears and we briefly stop following the main cast in favor of watching Godzilla terrorize a town and, shortly after, military briefings. It's a moment where the tropes of the genre and the promise of spectacle feel like they get in the way of what the movie has been doing so well up to that point. Cutting away to military scenes too--even though the POV has already shifted to Kumayama and Torahata--doesn't feel like it meshes as well with the POV choices made in this film as well as it did in the more detached, documentary-like omniscience of Godzilla ('54).

2) The main casts' roles peter out as soon as the first Mothra dies. Their integration into the climax--helping townsfolk and arranging a boat out to Iwa Island to rescue a schoolteacher and her class--is pretty superficial. It's a shame we don't get one more conversation on the themes they've helped bring to the film at that point, and which are so well explored in the first two thirds. It's an anti-nuclear, anti-unchecked capitalism, pro-global humanism, pro-journalism and pro-science film, and it's joyously bold (though not polemic) in its approach to those subjects, but you'd be forgiven for forgetting that by the way its last half hour goes.

3) The special effects in the monster scenes aren't quite up to snuff with Godzilla, Mothra, Rodan or some of the entries to come. There are some moderately distracting matte shots, but what really gets me is the sped up footage that populates the Mothra vs. Godzilla fight. I suspect this was done to get more convincing movement out of Mothra, but as a consequence, Godzilla's movement looks ridiculous and uneven, and it's sort of hard to ignore. The larval Mothra props are also less convincing than the singular version in the original Mothra ('61) -- seemingly less detailed and I believe there's one scene in which wheels on the props are poorly hidden. The effects just feel like an uneven effort all around. Honda, Ifukube and Sekizawa turn in some of their best work here, but I think Tsubaraya's may lie elsewhere. It's too bad the Japanese version lost the frontier missile sequence though, as it's quite good.

(The Infant Island natives remain as offensive and implausible as ever, and the exterior of the island is probably the movie's one distractingly cheap-looking set, but that's all forgivable.)

I suppose I spent most of this post covering the elements about this movie I dislike, but that's only because I think everything else about it is truly wonderful. The above elements are the only reasons it falls outside my top ten favorite movies of all time. I think it's handily the second best Godzilla movie ever made, and generally deserving of another critical appraisal. This is popular film-making at (almost) its absolute best. I doubt we'll ever get something this charming and genuine again. Not as a spectacle studio film.

[Godzillian]

I think the battle between Godzilla and Mothra in this film is one of the best in the entire franchise

[Rodan]

I think the battle between Godzilla and Mothra in this film is one of the best in the entire franchise

Eh. The film has certainly earned my investment on a story level by that point. I just don't feel it's the most competently choreographed or filmed.

[Space Hunter M]

I agree that the film's last third does resort to just mindless, non-stop spectacle. Even if some of the actual work is a bit sloppy, the cutting is top notch and the scenes are still exciting regardless of any inconsistencies, IMO.

[Rodan]

I agree that the film's last third does resort to just mindless, non-stop spectacle. Even if some of the actual work is a bit sloppy, the cutting is top notch and the scenes are still exciting regardless of any inconsistencies, IMO.

I can agree with that 100%. The editing is top-notch throughout the whole film, in both drama and special-effects scenes. I would still hold this up as among the best spectacle movies ever made.

[Space Hunter M]

I think the tighter editing is another thing that sets it apart from Kong, which had a larger amount of stuff played out in lingering masters and whatnot. It's got a lot of the same trappings from that movie, but they're all handled very differently tone wise.

[Rodan]

While we're at it (speaking of good editing in special-effects scenes), does a 2.55:1 version of the frontier-missile sequence exist? The U.S. cut on Classic Media's DVD is cropped, but I don't know what led to that choice.

[Space Hunter M]

While we're at it (speaking of good editing in special-effects scenes), does a 2.55:1 version of the frontier-missile sequence exist? The U.S. cut on Classic Media's DVD is cropped, but I don't know what led to that choice.

The non-anamorphic Simitar master is unfortunately still the best (incomplete) TohoScope source for the scene. A small chunk of the scene is damaged at least on the film elements used for TV and home video releases since 1983:


There's also a terrible looking incomplete Italian copy in 'scope:


I fucking hate how one of the most beloved U.S. versions is in complete tatters and no one seems to give a damn. I'm also annoyed that Toho seems to have lost their own elements for the scene. I'll never hear Harold Conway's original terrible performance!

[Rodan]

^Thanks for that. That sucks. Honestly, I'd be interested in seeing a Japanese cut that incorporates it as well (even though it kind of furthers my complaints about the spectacle elements distracting from the characters, I think it plays well with the movie thematically is just a tightly shot and exciting sequence). It's too bad it seems neither will happen.

The Simitar release is so much cleaner too. What happened?

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

You can get a pretty good idea of it from this review: http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2007 ... -godzilla/

Baisicly, what it boils down to is that the Tohoscope Scimitar print was missing more footage than the one used, and was also more faded. For example, some shots of Godzilla's breath appeared purple! They simply chose the print they felt was the lesser of two evils.

[Space Hunter M]

The Simitar version is a conformation of widescreen footage to the absolutely horrid 1980's UPA video master rather than a straight up transfer of the film elements and optical track. The MonstersHD version technically IS a better representation of the U.S. version than the Simitar master minus the shit framing, though it has problems of its own.

[Rodan]

Ah. Thanks for the lesson on releases/prints, guys.

[Shobijin]

I give the Japanese version 4 stars and the original Godzilla film 5 stars. Most of the other Showa movies do no really come close.
Mothra vs Godzilla has the right balance between humor and drama. The music, sound, and characters are great. The plot makes sense. The fight had meaning and was not forced. There are just so many memorable scenes. And, of course, the Shobijin are fantastic. I could easily recommend this movie to a non-fan for a good sample of Showa Godzilla.

I actually cry while watching this one.