Rodan Raised Baragon

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eabaker
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by eabaker »

I mean, Toho could just decide to say that in the Heisei timeline, at the same time that Godzilla was fighting Destroyah, the Kiilaks were landing on Solgel island, where they used the ability to psychokinetically control molecules in order to create Gorosaurus and Megaguirus, who mated to create Bagan, and then Bagan and Junior teamed up to destroy the world.
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by GalacticPetey »

eabaker wrote:I mean, Toho could just decide to say that in the Heisei timeline, at the same time that Godzilla was fighting Destroyah, the Kiilaks were landing on Solgel island, where they used the ability to psychokinetically control molecules in order to create Gorosaurus and Megaguirus, who mated to create Bagan, and then Bagan and Junior teamed up to destroy the world.
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by g2vd »

Goji wrote:That's...dumb. The ROM films are self contained, as far as I'm concerned. They're not connected to anything else, and just so happen to feature other Toho kaiju. The idea of Baragon being "created" is just too random, considering he wasn't even featured in any of the ROM films, anyway.

I'm more than okay with Baragon simply being what he's always been; a survivor of the prehistoric era, just like Godzilla, Rodan, and Anguirus have always been.
I found the one with Baragon it's pretty weird... Monster fighting arenas..
http://www.tohokingdom.com/forum/viewto ... =7&t=23205

There is another one for Death-Ghidorah which delves deeper into his attack on Pre-Historic Earth..it involves him fighting Ultraman homages. I'm still looking for that one.
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

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(Deleted)
Last edited by JVM on Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by edgaguirus »

It's a harmless fact. It adds nothing, and takes nothing away, from the films or any story lines.
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by LamangoKaijura »

Goji wrote:That's...dumb. The ROM films are self contained, as far as I'm concerned. They're not connected to anything else, and just so happen to feature other Toho kaiju. The idea of Baragon being "created" is just too random, considering he wasn't even featured in any of the ROM films, anyway.

I'm more than okay with Baragon simply being what he's always been; a survivor of the prehistoric era, just like Godzilla, Rodan, and Anguirus have always been.
Except you don't matter in the eyes of Toho. Rodan, Godzilla, Anguirus, Gorosaurus, Kingsaurus III, all fought DesGhidorah. Baragon and Telesdon were made by the people who made Daghra.
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by Goji »

And neither do you, guy. Such an edgy comeback!
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
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I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.

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eabaker
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by eabaker »

JVM wrote:
eabaker wrote:I mean, Toho could just decide to say that in the Heisei timeline, at the same time that Godzilla was fighting Destroyah, the Kiilaks were landing on Solgel island, where they used the ability to psychokinetically control molecules in order to create Gorosaurus and Megaguirus, who mated to create Bagan, and then Bagan and Junior teamed up to destroy the world.
Your original point was valid and not incorrect but I think your example here is exaggerated to irrelevance.
Or, y'know, playful. It could be that I was being playful.
Rodan raising Baragon is a factoid that does not affect the story. That's completely true, but this does not contradict anything portrayed on screen in any of the latter Godzilla films, or interfere with the narratives presented. The factoid does not harm the movie or continuity by merely existing. Your scenario is contradictory to what takes place on-screen in Godzilla vs. Destoroyah and the implication a massive alien invasion is taking place and that Godzilla, Junior is, in fact, the true villain of the film, would destroy the narrative and take more away from Godzilla vs. Destoroyah than a tiny factoid about Baragon adds or takes from Destroy All Monsters.
Actually, what I said wouldn't affect that narrative of Godzilla vs. Destroyah in the slightest. It is not contradictory to anything that happens on screen, and it wouldn't in any way make Junior the true villain of the film. It's not relevant to the film in any way; it only relates to off-screen events that wouldn't have any impact on the characters until after the credits have started rolling. It wouldn't take anything away from the movie; it wouldn't mean anything to the movie for the simple reason that it is not of the movie.
I don't know why some people see so troubled by this piece of information. I can understand not finding it significant, sure - it's not - but it almost seems as if a minority are outright bothered by it, as if this somehow contradicts Destroy All Monsters and cheats it of a valuable, established story development.
Quite the opposite. The point we're trying to make here is that a decision made after the movie is released is totally irrelevant to the existing product. It doesn't help the movie, it doesn't hinder the movie, it doesn't have anything to do with the movie. What is somewhat annoying is the implication that we should consider this relevant to the movie in some way, that we should change the way that we look at Rodan and Baragon based on this (or any) bizarre retcon.
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by Goji »

JVM wrote: I don't know why some people see so troubled by this piece of information. I can understand not finding it significant, sure - it's not - but it almost seems as if a minority are outright bothered by it, as if this somehow contradicts Destroy All Monsters and cheats it of a valuable, established story development.
Who is this even directed at other than eabaker? Because I don't see why it warrants such a drawn out response from you. I doubt that anybody, much less him, are "troubled" by it.

I really have no opinion about the Rodan raising Baragon tidbit. Nothing in the movies even hints and such a thing, so it's really not all the interesting. It's a 'fun' thought I suppose, but ultimately it adds nothing.

But all of that nonsense about Baragon and ROM2? It's just silly. I really don't care about things that were made up after the fact for what is easily Toho's worst kaiju film. You could tell me that Gigan was on his way to aid Ghidorah in ROM 3, but decided to turn back when shit hit the fan, and it would add absolutely nothing to the film in any way.
Last edited by Goji on Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.

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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by eabaker »

At this point, I really regret ever posting in this thread. As Goji said, I'm in no way "troubled" by this (prepare for maximum sarcasm quotes) "information." It does seem like people are taking it a bit too seriously at times, and that does tie into my genuine dislike for retcon being brought into serious discussions about prior works. I think, as a result, it's come off like I have some really strong feelings about this weird little notion.

Anyway, this is definitely not a hill I want to die on. I will make no further jokes, and post no further serious opinions in this thread for the time being.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

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Re: (Deleted)

Post by JVM »

eabaker, I sincerely apologize for my harsh words towards you. I was very rude and unfair toward you in this thread. The point of a message board is for serious discussion and my making a thread about a small shred of... whatever the proper term is for such inane claims, clearly interfered with the intended purpose of a message board as a place for serious discussion. Far more importantly, I should not have been rude to you or anyone else, hypothetically, for expressing an opinion and adding to the discussion at hand. That was an overreach.

I will try to avoid words like "troubled" and "information" in the future, since those seem to have been particularly offensive.

I would like to ask staff members to close this topic as soon as possible, and maybe next time not to share Toho's repeated historical revisionism on the main site.
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Re: (Deleted)

Post by TitanoGoji16 »

JVM wrote:I would like to ask staff members to close this topic as soon as possible
Uh, no? This is a fun little factoid. Doesn't really add anything to the movie, as has been said, but it's a neat little thing to discuss and theorize about.
JVM wrote:I would like to ask staff members ... not to share Toho's repeated historical revisionism on the main site.
Haha, what? "I'd like to tell Anthony what he can and cannot put on his own website."
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Re: (Deleted)

Post by BlacktimusPrime »

JVM wrote:I would like to ask staff members to close this topic as soon as possible
Do it!

Ahem... In all seriousness, I agree with the above poster; it's a fun factoid, let it be discussed.
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Turn me into a twix and give me a break.

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Re: (Deleted)

Post by Goji »

What an overreaction. And why would you completely stop using the word "information" in any future posts? :eh:
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.

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Re: (Deleted)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Why should an interesting thread be deleted?

The topic of Retcons brought about by Eabaker actually has a gigantic impact on the series. Like I believe they retconned the original/Showa Godzilla and heisei Godzilla into having a regenerative power even though that was never really explicitly established till Godzilla 2000(sure Godzilla vs had hints, but never directly).

This retcon though is also really funny, and doesn't change much, so I'm fine with accepting it.

But it also brings up what counts as a reliable source. Are these books written by Toho, and by people who directly worked on the story and made the film? If not, even if licensed does that mean addition content is cannon? Big issues here
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Re: (Deleted)

Post by SomeknowmeasXeno »

There was no legitimate reason to 'delete' this thread.
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Re: (Deleted)

Post by Goji »

Considering we're all still posting in it, it obviously hasn't been deleted yet..
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.

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Re: (Deleted)

Post by eabaker »

JVM wrote:eabaker, I sincerely apologize for my harsh words towards you. I was very rude and unfair toward you in this thread. The point of a message board is for serious discussion and my making a thread about a small shred of... whatever the proper term is for such inane claims, clearly interfered with the intended purpose of a message board as a place for serious discussion. Far more importantly, I should not have been rude to you or anyone else, hypothetically, for expressing an opinion and adding to the discussion at hand. That was an overreach.

I will try to avoid words like "troubled" and "information" in the future, since those seem to have been particularly offensive.

I would like to ask staff members to close this topic as soon as possible, and maybe next time not to share Toho's repeated historical revisionism on the main site.
Honestly, I totally see why my comments could have set you off, because they could very well read like I was being a complete elitist dick. So, I'm sorry I didn't present myself better, or make my tone clearer.
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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by Bigdog »

Rodan wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:I feel like this dumbness slightly elevates Baragon in the kaiju community, no idea why.
Baragon's relative popularity in Japan (enough to inspire a Pokemon, even) has always sort of baffled me, since outside of his Destroy All Monsters cameo, he was in exactly one film, as a villain, and it's hardly the most kid-appealing entry in Toho's '60s library.
Maybe it's the fact that Baragon is basically a dinosaur version of a bunny? Bunnies are apparently a huge thing over in Japan and having something with big floppy ears would be a huge draw for kids, no matter how the initial movies are. Basically the equivalent of kids watching South Park.

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Re: Rodan raised Baragon

Post by StAiRcAsE KiTtY »

Bigdog wrote:
Rodan wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:I feel like this dumbness slightly elevates Baragon in the kaiju community, no idea why.
Baragon's relative popularity in Japan (enough to inspire a Pokemon, even) has always sort of baffled me, since outside of his Destroy All Monsters cameo, he was in exactly one film, as a villain, and it's hardly the most kid-appealing entry in Toho's '60s library.
Maybe it's the fact that Baragon is basically a dinosaur version of a bunny? Bunnies are apparently a huge thing over in Japan and having something with big floppy ears would be a huge draw for kids, no matter how the initial movies are. Basically the equivalent of kids watching South Park.
Are you comparing kids watching South Park to kids watching Frankenstein vs. Baragon?
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