At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
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At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
I've never really thought to have any kind of discussion about this. We all live in a world now where there are numerous Godzilla eras/continuities...heck, there is even an entire era of films that ALL occur in their very own continuity. For me growing up and for a lot of fans, I'm sure it is just '3 eras of alternate timelines and continuities'.
But I'm wondering if any fans of the Showa series(aren't we all?) feel particularly negative about that series being erased/rebooted. Would you have liked to see that style of films continue and perhaps see the franchise simply rebound with better entries as opposed to 'ignoring' so many films?
The Showa era is unique because its loose continuity went beyond the Godzilla films, other Showa era Kaiju films sort of factored in and felt 'part of the fold' with those Godzilla films. Do any fans ever get a day-dreamy about how that era/series could have continued or made a rebound with more films?
And beyond that....I'm sure this is the much harder question/topic....but what was the general feeling AT THE TIME when it was announced that the 1984 film would ignore all of the previous films but the original. Was there kind of a sense of 'Toho is disapproving/disowning all of those sequels'....a sense of 'It is good to start fresh again'....was there a general climate of it being a welcome change? Was it something people had a hard time understanding?
Nowadays we live in a world of reboots and selective sequels and etc...Superman Returns ignoring 3 and 4, Jurassic World ignoring 2 and 3, etc...but when Godzilla did it in 1984 I get the feeling it was a rather unique thing for the time. Today people sometimes beg for 'bad sequels' to be ignored. But in 1984, I'm not sure if it was enough of a 'thing' for anyone to be calling for...so it must have been pretty drastic.
I'd love to hear about the general climate around the 84/85 films regarding how the previous 14 Godzilla films 'never happened' in relation to this new film.
But I'm wondering if any fans of the Showa series(aren't we all?) feel particularly negative about that series being erased/rebooted. Would you have liked to see that style of films continue and perhaps see the franchise simply rebound with better entries as opposed to 'ignoring' so many films?
The Showa era is unique because its loose continuity went beyond the Godzilla films, other Showa era Kaiju films sort of factored in and felt 'part of the fold' with those Godzilla films. Do any fans ever get a day-dreamy about how that era/series could have continued or made a rebound with more films?
And beyond that....I'm sure this is the much harder question/topic....but what was the general feeling AT THE TIME when it was announced that the 1984 film would ignore all of the previous films but the original. Was there kind of a sense of 'Toho is disapproving/disowning all of those sequels'....a sense of 'It is good to start fresh again'....was there a general climate of it being a welcome change? Was it something people had a hard time understanding?
Nowadays we live in a world of reboots and selective sequels and etc...Superman Returns ignoring 3 and 4, Jurassic World ignoring 2 and 3, etc...but when Godzilla did it in 1984 I get the feeling it was a rather unique thing for the time. Today people sometimes beg for 'bad sequels' to be ignored. But in 1984, I'm not sure if it was enough of a 'thing' for anyone to be calling for...so it must have been pretty drastic.
I'd love to hear about the general climate around the 84/85 films regarding how the previous 14 Godzilla films 'never happened' in relation to this new film.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
Well continuity had already been rebooted once when I was born and was rebooted again throughout my childhood, so I've never thought about things being different. This was always normal to me.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
To my understanding, the Showa timeline was never erased. Godzilla 1984 just ignored all films after Godzilla; King of the Monsters because the former was a direct sequel to the former.Chrispy_G wrote:I've never really thought to have any kind of discussion about this. We all live in a world now where there are numerous Godzilla eras/continuities...heck, there is even an entire era of films that ALL occur in their very own continuity. For me growing up and for a lot of fans, I'm sure it is just '3 eras of alternate timelines and continuities'.
But I'm wondering if any fans of the Showa series(aren't we all?) feel particularly negative about that series being erased/rebooted. Would you have liked to see that style of films continue and perhaps see the franchise simply rebound with better entries as opposed to 'ignoring' so many films?
The Showa era is unique because its loose continuity went beyond the Godzilla films, other Showa era Kaiju films sort of factored in and felt 'part of the fold' with those Godzilla films. Do any fans ever get a day-dreamy about how that era/series could have continued or made a rebound with more films?
And beyond that....I'm sure this is the much harder question/topic....but what was the general feeling AT THE TIME when it was announced that the 1984 film would ignore all of the previous films but the original. Was there kind of a sense of 'Toho is disapproving/disowning all of those sequels'....a sense of 'It is good to start fresh again'....was there a general climate of it being a welcome change? Was it something people had a hard time understanding?
Nowadays we live in a world of reboots and selective sequels and etc...Superman Returns ignoring 3 and 4, Jurassic World ignoring 2 and 3, etc...but when Godzilla did it in 1984 I get the feeling it was a rather unique thing for the time. Today people sometimes beg for 'bad sequels' to be ignored. But in 1984, I'm not sure if it was enough of a 'thing' for anyone to be calling for...so it must have been pretty drastic.
I'd love to hear about the general climate around the 84/85 films regarding how the previous 14 Godzilla films 'never happened' in relation to this new film.
But then again, Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah just mucks everything up.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
I didn't mean 'erased' in that way...I just meant that the Showa series of Godzilla films was discontinued, and a new era of Godzilla films were made that directly followed the first film and ignored everything else.
I'm very curious about how that concept was received back in the 80s, exactly how people felt about it and responded to it. I'm also curious if any fans have thoughts about hoping the Showa era of films had continued in one form or another.
I'm very curious about how that concept was received back in the 80s, exactly how people felt about it and responded to it. I'm also curious if any fans have thoughts about hoping the Showa era of films had continued in one form or another.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
Oh. Well sorry for the misinterpretation.Chrispy_G wrote:I didn't mean 'erased' in that way...I just meant that the Showa series of Godzilla films was discontinued, and a new era of Godzilla films were made that directly followed the first film and ignored everything else.
I'm very curious about how that concept was received back in the 80s, exactly how people felt about it and responded to it. I'm also curious if any fans have thoughts about hoping the Showa era of films had continued in one form or another.
But what you're saying is you don't think the Showa era should have been ignored, correct?
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
While I do enjoy the Showa era, it ended at a time of decreased film budgets and higher standards for sci fi films. The Showa era was a great time for creativity, and sometimes oddity, and that made it great. Some of the ideas to extend it would have been fun to see.
I can see why the Hesei era wanted to start again. It'd been years since a Godzilla film, and with the cold war, they wanted something darker and more serious than the Showa's hero image.
I can see why the Hesei era wanted to start again. It'd been years since a Godzilla film, and with the cold war, they wanted something darker and more serious than the Showa's hero image.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
The continuity of the Showa was always very loose. Very few films could be seen as a direct sequel to the one before it. You had actors return but they never reprised their role from a previous film. Other then Takashi Shimura reprising the role of Dr Yamane in "Godzilla Raids Again" and that was a very minor role. If the events of a previous movie were mentioned, often things were changed. No mention of Mothra fighting along side Godzilla and Rodan in "Invasion of the Astro-Monster". Also King Caeser is edited out of the fight footage at the start of "Terror of Mechagodzilla" and never mentioned in the film. Then there is "Destory All Monster" which takes place in the distant year of 1999, and "All Monsters Attack" aka Godzilla's Revenge which all the monster parts are in the kids head.
Before the 90s many fans felt that earlier films could be broken down into different categories. You had Godzilla as the villain which ended with Mothra Vs Godzilla. You had Godzilla in his team up films, defending the Earth with the help of allies. The south seas island films. Then the Champion Festival films where Godzilla was pretty much a super hero. "Return of Godzilla" was just another phase but thanks to Kazuki Omori he built on the film that came before it that started, more connection between each film. That and the fact that Japan started a new historical era in 1989 the term Heisei era was born. And since the new films were being more closely tied together "Return of Godzilla" became part of the Heisei era, even though it was made during the Showa period. Also at this point the whole pervious film collection started being classified as the Showa era
Heck even "Godzilla Vs Mothra" in 1993 had no in film connection to any pervious films. They knew of Godzilla but that was about it, no mention of any of the events of the previous 3 films at all. It could be taken as a stand alone film. It isn't to the start of "Godzilla Vs Mechagodzilla II" with the selvaging of Mecha King Ghidorah head that we start to have continuity again.
So some fans were disappointed that the previous films were being ignored, but many felt a new start was needed. At the time many fans were more excited after Godzilla Vs King Ghidorah to start seeing reimagining of many of their favorite kaiju from previous films and how they could be done.
Before the 90s many fans felt that earlier films could be broken down into different categories. You had Godzilla as the villain which ended with Mothra Vs Godzilla. You had Godzilla in his team up films, defending the Earth with the help of allies. The south seas island films. Then the Champion Festival films where Godzilla was pretty much a super hero. "Return of Godzilla" was just another phase but thanks to Kazuki Omori he built on the film that came before it that started, more connection between each film. That and the fact that Japan started a new historical era in 1989 the term Heisei era was born. And since the new films were being more closely tied together "Return of Godzilla" became part of the Heisei era, even though it was made during the Showa period. Also at this point the whole pervious film collection started being classified as the Showa era
Heck even "Godzilla Vs Mothra" in 1993 had no in film connection to any pervious films. They knew of Godzilla but that was about it, no mention of any of the events of the previous 3 films at all. It could be taken as a stand alone film. It isn't to the start of "Godzilla Vs Mechagodzilla II" with the selvaging of Mecha King Ghidorah head that we start to have continuity again.
So some fans were disappointed that the previous films were being ignored, but many felt a new start was needed. At the time many fans were more excited after Godzilla Vs King Ghidorah to start seeing reimagining of many of their favorite kaiju from previous films and how they could be done.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
At the time, I was far too young to really have an opinion about such things; I'd seen and enjoyed some Godzilla movies on TV, but the theatrical release of G85 was really the moment where Godzilla first made a profound impact on me.
Looking at it now, as someone who is primarily a Showa fan (I guess, more or less)... Well, first off, I don't really think of the Showa films as being a continuity, anyway. But to whatever degree they really are... 15 movies is enough. And that's coming from someone whose favorite number is 16.
And, as more interest in continuity in sequels made its way into the series, maintaining continuity with all those prior films, and bringing the total number of movies in a single continuity up to 22 (Showa + Heisei)... God, that would have been tedious.
Stories need to end.
Looking at it now, as someone who is primarily a Showa fan (I guess, more or less)... Well, first off, I don't really think of the Showa films as being a continuity, anyway. But to whatever degree they really are... 15 movies is enough. And that's coming from someone whose favorite number is 16.
And, as more interest in continuity in sequels made its way into the series, maintaining continuity with all those prior films, and bringing the total number of movies in a single continuity up to 22 (Showa + Heisei)... God, that would have been tedious.
Stories need to end.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
I ... uh, wasn't born at the time.
However, I can only imagine it would have felt fairly natural for a revival after nearly a decade and massive changes in the film industry to do its own thing.
However, I can only imagine it would have felt fairly natural for a revival after nearly a decade and massive changes in the film industry to do its own thing.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
From my understanding, the prevailing mood in the eighties was that the series was damaged and the only way to save it was to erase the silliness of the late Showa era and try to do a new and more serious film, which is why the 1970's version of King of the Monsters: The Rebirth of Godzilla, for example, was under serious consideration, followed by a few similarly 'darker' projects before the final film. It's important to remember that in Japan, the late Showa films were poorly-attended, which probably helped to them being regarded mostly as to inferior quality of the earlier films. Consequently, a big reason then, and to a much lesser degree now, that The Return of Godzilla was so critically successful and well-regarded, was the view that it had gone back to the darker and serious roots of the franchise. While it's quickly becoming a footnote among American fans, in Japan it was the most critically successful entry since Destroy All Monsters, I believe.
In the long run? I don't know - I personally would kill to see the Showa continuity revisited in the films, comics or whatever. We still have a long gap between The Terror of MechaGodzilla and Destroy All Monsters, much less afterward, which offers a lot of creative fluidity. I doubt it'd ever happen, but I think it'd be really fun to see someone try.
In the long run? I don't know - I personally would kill to see the Showa continuity revisited in the films, comics or whatever. We still have a long gap between The Terror of MechaGodzilla and Destroy All Monsters, much less afterward, which offers a lot of creative fluidity. I doubt it'd ever happen, but I think it'd be really fun to see someone try.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
Personally, I think it would've been really jarring for the Showa series to suddenly revive itself after such a long absence; and, besides, as has been stated already, a reboot ignoring the goofy rut Godzilla had fallen into was pretty much the only option if they wanted a success (especially with audience's tastes for the 'dark' at the time).
Besides, had the Showa era continued, we'd have naturally and understandably separated it regardless. Look at Godzilla Vs Biollante, one of the most technologically impressive installments in the series, against the Showa finale, ToMG - they look entirely different, and chances are they would've been written very different, as well.
Besides, had the Showa era continued, we'd have naturally and understandably separated it regardless. Look at Godzilla Vs Biollante, one of the most technologically impressive installments in the series, against the Showa finale, ToMG - they look entirely different, and chances are they would've been written very different, as well.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
As much as I would love the idea of the Showa series coming back, not only would it be really jarring, but it just wouldn't be the same. Times have changed too much for them to ever capture the feeling of a true showa movie.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
Miki and Dobashi.szmigiel wrote:Heck even "Godzilla Vs Mothra" in 1993 had no in film connection to any pervious films. They knew of Godzilla but that was about it, no mention of any of the events of the previous 3 films at all. It could be taken as a stand alone film. It isn't to the start of "Godzilla Vs Mechagodzilla II" with the selvaging of Mecha King Ghidorah head that we start to have continuity again.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
And they are just characters in the movie, they make no reference to any of the 3 previous films.TitanoGoji16 wrote:Miki and Dobashi.szmigiel wrote:Heck even "Godzilla Vs Mothra" in 1993 had no in film connection to any pervious films. They knew of Godzilla but that was about it, no mention of any of the events of the previous 3 films at all. It could be taken as a stand alone film. It isn't to the start of "Godzilla Vs Mechagodzilla II" with the selvaging of Mecha King Ghidorah head that we start to have continuity again.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
...
They ARE references to the three previous films.
They ARE references to the three previous films.
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
How many of the other references being discussed exceed the criteria of 'just a thing from a previous film showing up?' If returning characters being a mark of continuity are disqualified as genuine continuity, then how many other continuity marks can actually survive those standards?
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Re: At the time, and now in hindsight, how do most feel about the Showa era being 'erased' in the 80s?
I don't mind at all. Continuity in Godzilla films is something that doesn't really matter for me.
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