Talkback: King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

[JAGzilla]

Honestly, my underwhelmed first impression probably wasn't entirely the movie's fault. I was interrupted and bothered several times while watching, which made it hard to enjoy. The odds were against it, anyway, since the English version was my first G movie and has always been one of my favorites. Maybe another viewing will change my opinion.

[Julia Bristow]

I do admit (albeit grudgingly) that the US cut is better than the Japanese cut in a few ways:

The earthquake in the US cut is more violent & more destructive than the tremor seen in the original cut
The opening quote in Universal's cut is more ominous & foreshadows the events to come

but overall I do like the original Japanese cut better.

[Creature22]

This was one of the first Godzilla movies I watched. I was exposed to the 1954 Godzilla and 1933 King Kong before any of the other giant monster films, so it was a proper introduction. When my brother and I saw the trailer for this as kids (on the VHS of Godzilla 1954) we went crazy. We debated on who would win in the end, with him rooting for Kong and me for Godzilla. I would later receive a VHS copy of this movie (copied onto a blank VHS at least) and watched it a lot. I love this film in particular because there was always something going on, between Godzilla breaking out of the ice, the island scenes with the natives, Kong and the octopus, and even the human scenes, which stay entertaining and actually fun throughout the film.

After seeing the Japanese cut, I enjoyed it even more, especially with the awesome music and additional scenes that didn't make the American edit. It needs a proper DVD release!

[Dracosaurian]

This might seem like a strange question to ask but if godzilla and kong met for a second time in the showa era, do you think kong would win again ??? I ask this because as the showa films progressed godzilla seemed to gain an immunity against electrical attacks (major example is g vs. mg 1974). Also godzilla's atomic breath looked more powerful in later films and he used more cunning strategies and intelect in battles than just brute force. So would godzilla get the better of kong if they fought again in the showa era ???

I'm genuinely curious.

[Creature22]

This might seem like a strange question to ask but if godzilla and kong met for a second time in the showa era, do you think kong would win again ??? I ask this because as the showa films progressed godzilla seemed to gain an immunity against electrical attacks (major example is g vs. mg 1974). Also godzilla's atomic breath looked more powerful in later films and he used more cunning strategies and intelect in battles than just brute force. So would godzilla get the better of kong if they fought again in the showa era ???

I'm genuinely curious.

Hard to tell. Godzilla could probably kill Kong. But "Kong is a thinking animal. His brain is considerably larger." When you take that into account, it's like a fight between Batman and Superman... one has powers that can't be matched, but the other has an intellectual mind that could equally outsmart the other. It would be a good fight.

That, or Kong would take Godzilla to court where they would discuss their rights between Universal and Toho and settle who legally gets to win the fight (or else Universal won't fund the battle).

[daveblackeye15]

I don't want to admit it but I think this is the one Godzilla movie I prefer the U.S. cut. Ifukube's score is great but it felt really off in places, some scenes needed something louder when something quiet was used while something quiet was used for places I thought needed it.

Really? One of the smartest Godzilla movies? I remember the original version really feeling much more like a comedy with the monsters popping up every once in a while. Which is weird since I felt Honda had far more interest in the monster scenes. It felt like everyone wanted it to be a human comedy and went 'eh alright I guess we can have some monsters here and there.'

[gojira96]

IReally? One of the smartest Godzilla movies? I remember the original version really feeling much more like a comedy with the monsters popping up every once in a while. Which is weird since I felt Honda had far more interest in the monster scenes. It felt like everyone wanted it to be a human comedy and went 'eh alright I guess we can have some monsters here and there.'

Just because it's humorous doesn't mean it's not smart. And when you think about it, most Godzilla films only have the monsters "popping up every once in a while".

[Creature22]

Yeah, the Japanese version of the film is meant to be comedic and, in my opinion, keeps the film at a very good pace for that reason. The human interaction isn't too serious or slow, which works since there is always action going on. The American release also keeps some of the comedic tone but takes the footage more seriously, so there is a little bit more human scenes added. Both versions are pretty good though, in their own ways.

I particularly enjoyed a lot of the human scenes in the Japanese release, especially when they get the idea to put Kong to sleep after they see the boyfriend of the girl (in his hand) shouting to Kong like one of the natives from the island, or Kong being "smuggled goods." Little things like that kept me entertained when there were no monsters to keep me entertained.

[daveblackeye15]

IReally? One of the smartest Godzilla movies? I remember the original version really feeling much more like a comedy with the monsters popping up every once in a while. Which is weird since I felt Honda had far more interest in the monster scenes. It felt like everyone wanted it to be a human comedy and went 'eh alright I guess we can have some monsters here and there.'

Just because it's humorous doesn't mean it's not smart. And when you think about it, most Godzilla films only have the monsters "popping up every once in a while".

Well yeah humor doesn't mean it's dumb by any means, people seem to underestimate humor too much. But seriously the film didn't really seem all that smart. I'd certainly like to watch again maybe I'd see it stick out more. And yes I'm aware plenty of Godzilla movies have 'popping up every once in a while' but this one felt different from the others. This one felt like only Honda, Tsuburaya and the suit actors wanted to be a monster movie while everyone else seemed fired up to do a comedy.

I'd say nostalgia was competely at play but I've warmed up to plenty of the Japanese versions after over a decade or two of having only the U.S. cuts.

I uh, also think I like the octopus scene being more as drama than comedy.

[MechaTyranitar]

I've been rewatching the Japanese cut in the last month or so at least once a week; either as a casual watch or background noise. It's just a movie I've come to appreciate more and more ever since discovering the JP edition. Warning, this is kind of a tangent(and possibly a lot of digging deep for things that maybe only I'm seeing)!

Without the risk of sounding patronizing; I love just how Japanese it feels. I mean, that sounds like a no-brainer since it is and all, but moreover what I mean is how I love how Toho takes Kong and just makes it their own. The first portion of the film is basically a reworking of the original King Kong movie of course, just transplanting the events to make relevant to Japan 30 years after. And much like the original 'Kong film reflects 1930's America; the struggling actress hit by the depression, the noble capitalist and entrepreneur; and the ultra-rugged sailor going to an exotic locale to conquer, KK vs. godzilla seems to be a reflection of a 60's Japan. Our heroes are, basically, two salarymen, cogs in a machine ultimately not going to conquer, but to keep the wheels of industry turning. Unlike the encounter with the natives in the US KK; where the natives are portrayed as typical savage "others", dangerous and lusting over innocent blonde woman; the meeting with the natives here in KK vs. Godzilla is far more light-hearted, humorous, and lacking in the xenophobic, racial undercurrent that tends to give me a sour aftertaste with the '33 movie. Our heroes win the trust of the natives not through violence, but with industry:impressing them with their technology and introducing them to product; the cigarettes. Not an opportunity for conflict, but capitalism. This to me, foreshadows Japan as a global powerhouse in business, and the undercurrent of post-war Japanese thinking. Japan not prospering through militarism, but industry. If Kong '33 revolves around man proving his power by trying to conquer a god, KK vs. G is about trying to sell a god.

And Kong himself .The thing many newer Kong media seem to miss about Kong is that he shouldn't look like a regular gorilla, as silly as that sounds. Sure, the original model was probably meant to look like one as much as possible, but ultimately it didn't. and as such, Kong, with his somewhat thin limb proportions, the piercing eyes, the gaping mouth, and the stop motion itself all gave him an uncannily human feel. It's an animal all it's own. Perhaps Eiji Tsuburaya didn't pull it off as well as he could, but I do think it was a good call in basing it partially off the Half-human Snowman creature, as he should be human-like in many respects. I love one post I head here a while back, I can't remember who posted it, but the gist of it was that capturing Kong via getting him drunk was not unlike various Japanese folktales of demons being tricked and defeated in such a way.

Conversely, Godzilla almost feels "Americanized". I don't think that was intentional or anything, but portraying him and a malicious,somewhat dumb brute beast feels like a far cry from the tragic, scarred monster lashing out out of nature we saw originally. A black-and-white interpretation that feels common to American creature flicks of the time. Even his design lacks the mammalian elements that makes Godzilla so uniquely Japanese. At his base, he's a dinosaur, but elements like the brow, the muzzle, the ears, etc. all give him a look that, again, makes him a creature all his own. To use the oni comparison again; he reminds me of one of those; or at least of an eastern style dragon in terms of blending reptile and mammal elements together. Ultimately, those elements help give him a look of sentience and emotion. Especially when framed in different angles. But the KingGoji design is just one of pure anger, no matter how you look at it. He's a villain, straight up. I think it's interesting that, as the movies shifted to making Godzilla more and more heroic, these mammalian features returned and became more pronounced. And simply, making him more dinosaur-like makes him fit better into Kong's world(even though they do go out of their way to remind us Godzilla is not a natural animal)

And the quest for Kong ultimately being guided by a need to boost ratings and sell product, and the reframing of Kong and G, two living natural disasters, as competitors for the attention of the public, is still incredibly poignant in the wake of 24 hour news cycles and constant online streams of media that monetize tragedies and vie for attention.

Basically, what I'm getting at:There's a heart to the film. The cast and crew clearly wanted to make something their own. Unlike most Kong media that just seem like a by-the-numbers retread or cash-in just to ride on the reputation of the original (the 70's movie and countless other takes), or too reverent and afraid to go it's own way (the 2005 version), this movie is unique. It's a statement, even if Honda, Sekizawa, etc. didn't necessarily intend it to be. I could go on and on; I love this movie.

[gojira96]

^Good, interesting post.

[AllPowersCombined]

To be honest I never really saw it as Kong's victory. Definitely not one that he should feel proud of. I really don't like how these crossovers always choose a vague and ambiguous ending. I think it began with Frankenstein Meets the Wolf-Man. When we don't know the result and have to ask people involved with the productions (whose statements are often contradictory). I guess it was just not that important in this movie. Godzilla had to disappear. He was a destructive force at that pointand it was necessary from the storytelling perspective.

What's interesting is that the final fight in Invasion of Astro-Monsters ends up in exactly the same way. We see one side evacuating from the battlefield while the other side remains missing.

[daveblackeye15]

Yeah that's really weird for Rodan. I mean not too weird for amphious Godzilla but Rodan? I figured maybe he died since I didn't see Destroy All Monsters for a good while. And before I learned of the film order.

[AllPowersCombined]

These monsters only die when the producers don't want them.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Never cared for it. In fact it's probably my least favorite Showa film. In fairness I've never seen the original cut. Some of the fx in the final battle are absolutely horrendous and really kill the film for me. Then again it was originally more of a satire than anything so the lousy fx toward the end could have been intentional.

[Kaiser]

One thing that's always bothered me is how Godzilla is defeated by the power lines in this film whereas in the original he waltzes right through them without any problem and in Mothra vs. Godzilla he gets blasted with artificial lightning and comes out no worse for wear. I know plot convenience and stuff, but it really does make him seem sort of weak.

[szmigiel]

I was never a big fan of "King Kong Vs. Godzilla" and tended to rank it pretty low on my list of Godzilla films. That changed once I finally tracked down a subtitled version of the Japanese cut, now it has cracked my Top 10 list. I find the pacing and music so much better with the Japanese version.

There is 19 minutes of Japanese footage cut out and really hurt the pacing in the 1st and 2nd act. Godzilla's appearance in much earlier, but then is not seen for awhile, so it is like he is forgotten. I didn't like the UN news reports, and crack up over the "Non addictive" line about the berries. Both Kong and the Octopus seemed to be drawn to the berries, they must be non addictive the same way cigarettes are. Also the pronunciation of Hokkaido is cringeworthy.

[GodzillaFanatic2001]

Hi, I have some questions about this movie. I am aware there is an international cut of this film, but I don't know anything about it. I'm going to assume that its lost like Varan's international cut, but I'm not sure, so some clarification would be nice!
-Thanks!

[Pkmatrix]

I was never a big fan of "King Kong Vs. Godzilla" and tended to rank it pretty low on my list of Godzilla films. That changed once I finally tracked down a subtitled version of the Japanese cut, now it has cracked my Top 10 list. I find the pacing and music so much better with the Japanese version.

There is 19 minutes of Japanese footage cut out and really hurt the pacing in the 1st and 2nd act. Godzilla's appearance in much earlier, but then is not seen for awhile, so it is like he is forgotten. I didn't like the UN news reports, and crack up over the "Non addictive" line about the berries. Both Kong and the Octopus seemed to be drawn to the berries, they must be non addictive the same way cigarettes are. Also the pronunciation of Hokkaido is cringeworthy.

Yeah, I suspect that will be the case for me as well whenever I get my hands on a subtitled copy of the Japanese cut. As it stands, I'm right now with Kaiser and place this at the bottom of the pile - I like G'98 more than this movie, and G'98 is boring as hell.

[Goji]

Hi, I have some questions about this movie. I am aware there is an international cut of this film, but I don't know anything about it.

Nobody does. It's never been released on home video anywhere, and the only place that it supposedly ever played (theatrically) was in the Philippines sometime in 1980.

All there is is this trailer, but the late William Ross (head of Frontier Enterprises, which dubbed several of Toho's SPX films) claims that his team never dubbed the whole movie, so it's a mystery who did. Frontier in Tokyo, and Ted Thomas' company, Axis International in Hong Kong, were the only companies dubbing Toho SPX films at this time. So if an international version was prepared, then who dubbed it? Unless it ever turns up (very unlikely), we'll probably never know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_8UqHprBus