Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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Re: Ebirah: Why all the hate?

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nani sore wrote:Why the skreeonk do we need all these "____: Why all the hate?" threads?

People need to realize that talkback threads have been around since the forum existed. So yea. We don't need fourty "why does so and so get hate" threads.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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*Dusts off thread*
So Ebirah is super cool, and is probably like one of my secret favorite monsters. Crustaceans are some of the coolest animals, especially shrimp and lobsters. Too many people discount Ebirah as "weak" when he held his own against Godzilla and escaped with only injuries (assuming the arms regenerate, which they should).

I always like the idea of Ebi and Goji playing volleyball against each other, with the other monsters watching from the sidelines, taking bets.
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

Post by three »

he escaped because he ran. Gigan did the same thing, but Gigan was smarter and left sooner. (though, didn't JJ try to break one of his arms?)
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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^most people escape by running, it's sort of a thing you have to do to escape. Would you prefer that he stood there like an armless idiot and be fried by atomic breath?
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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Moguera24 wrote:^most people escape by running, it's sort of a thing you have to do to escape. Would you prefer that he stood there like an armless idiot and be fried by atomic breath?
well you're saying "he escaped" like it's some badge of honor. lol he got whooped and was kind of too stupid to run before his arm got completely torn off. :P
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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I wouldn't call Ebirah stupid. Ebirah was handling Godzilla well enough until Ebirah lost the first Pincer. The moment of shock and pain allowed Godzilla to remove the other. Ebirah knew it was over then and got out while the getting was good.
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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edgaguirus wrote:I wouldn't call Ebirah stupid. Ebirah was handling Godzilla well enough until Ebirah lost the first Pincer. The moment of shock and pain allowed Godzilla to remove the other. Ebirah knew it was over then and got out while the getting was good.
i mean, it was being repelled by fruit before then, too. my point is that it appears to be a pretty instinctual, not intellectual, creature. sure, it ran off after losing both arms, but a smart kaiju would not have fought Godzilla on two separate occasions (given that it never had a chance), and then would get both arms/pincers pulled off.

in short, i think it's a dumb animal. cool design, but not so cool mental capacity.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.

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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

Post by Moguera24 »

[/quote]
edgaguirus wrote:I wouldn't call Ebirah stupid. Ebirah was handling Godzilla well enough until Ebirah lost the first Pincer. The moment of shock and pain allowed Godzilla to remove the other. Ebirah knew it was over then and got out while the getting was good.
yes, that's what I thought as well
three wrote:
Moguera24 wrote:^most people escape by running, it's sort of a thing you have to do to escape. Would you prefer that he stood there like an armless idiot and be fried by atomic breath?
well you're saying "he escaped" like it's some badge of honor. lol he got whooped and was kind of too stupid to run before his arm got completely torn off. :P
You're saying it like it's a badge of shame. There is no shame in running when you literally can't defend yourself. The difference between Ebirah and Gigan is that Ebirah ran when there was no possible way he could win; Gigan ran as soon as things didn't look well and abandons his friends like a coward.

Since when does being outmatched by a superior opponent make you any less of a cool monster. By all rights monsters like Ebirah should never be able to face Godzilla like that, but Ebirah did. Whether he won or lost in the end is inconsequential, what really matters is that he did it.
three wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:I wouldn't call Ebirah stupid. Ebirah was handling Godzilla well enough until Ebirah lost the first Pincer. The moment of shock and pain allowed Godzilla to remove the other. Ebirah knew it was over then and got out while the getting was good.
i mean, it was being repelled by fruit before then, too. my point is that it appears to be a pretty instinctual, not intellectual, creature. sure, it ran off after losing both arms, but a smart kaiju would not have fought Godzilla on two separate occasions (given that it never had a chance), and then would get both arms/pincers pulled off.

in short, i think it's a dumb animal. cool design, but not so cool mental capacity.
If you remember from DAM, all the monsters on the island were reigned in by spraying scented mist that repelled even Godzilla. Besides, I'm pretty sure every one would be repelled by a smell they really despise.

Anguirus fought Godzilla on a single occasion in his debut, he dies in the end. A ton of monsters have a chance to escape and run away when the going gets tough. Are all those monsters dumb instinctual animals for it?
I don't like the idea of instinctual Ebirah because I feel it's used as an excuse by so many to dismiss him as unimportant. "Oh, Ebirah, you mean that brainless animal. Why in the world should I give him the time of day? He's just a dumb creature with no intellect, or personality. He can't be an interesting character."
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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he was also just attacking boats that floated by, which doesn't bode too well for the "he's not stupid" discussion...

besides, running at the first sign of trouble IS smart, especially if you're not going to win. Gigan, therefore, was displaying greater intellect (which it did in other ways as well, but since we have no comparable feats on behalf of Ebirah here...). lest we forget that Ebs only shows back up because yet another boat came floating by, even though he had been beaten the day before and ran off when confronted with atomic breath (the smart thing to do).

if you think he's cool and all, you get no argument from me. but he's as dumb as a bag of rocks, for sure.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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three wrote:he was also just attacking boats that floated by, which doesn't bode too well for the "he's not stupid" discussion...

besides, running at the first sign of trouble IS smart, especially if you're not going to win. Gigan, therefore, was displaying greater intellect (which it did in other ways as well, but since we have no comparable feats on behalf of Ebirah here...). lest we forget that Ebs only shows back up because yet another boat came floating by, even though he had been beaten the day before and ran off when confronted with atomic breath (the smart thing to do).

if you think he's cool and all, you get no argument from me. but he's as dumb as a bag of rocks, for sure.
I guess movie-wise he is (also, Im sorry for being needlessly aggressive about this, I'm just too passionate sometimes)

I just have elaborate head canons that I probably shouldn't have.
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

Post by GodEmperorGabara »

three wrote:he was also just attacking boats that floated by, which doesn't bode too well for the "he's not stupid" discussion...
That just makes him aggressive, not necessarily stupid. I'd chalk it up as being aggressively territorial, not stupidity.
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

Post by three »

nah; it's alright moguera24. no harm, no foul. :)

an aggressive nature tends to (note: there are exceptions) be tied in with low intelligence. this would be especially true if it's acting purely on instinct and not thinking in its decision to attack random ships.
Last edited by three on Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

Post by edgaguirus »

Destroying any ship that enters the island's waters looks like territorial behavior.
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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edgaguirus wrote:Destroying any ship that enters the island's waters looks like territorial behavior.
i edited my post so that it actually says what i wanted it to. i do not know why i said "i'm not convinced it's just attacking ships for territorial reasons".


ships aren't a territorial threat; not to a sea monster.
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axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz

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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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No one has brought up yet that originally Ebirah was actually supposed to be fighting King Kong instead of Godzilla. Ebirah horror of the deep was originally supposed to have King Kong in Godzilla's place which would have made more sense. The giant condor and Ebirah would have been more intimidating against King Kong than Godzilla as King Kong doesn't have a beam which is the real advantage Godzilla had. Also Godzilla is a sea monster so there's presumably less danger in him being underwater compared to King Kong. Ebirah wasn't weak, he was just designed around facing an entirely different opponent.

As for Ebirah himself he's cool. I liked when he are those two people trying to escape, scary stuff. It's also cool how he's the first monster to fight underwater in the Godzilla series ignoring Manda vs Atragon. It's a nice switch up from the land battles from the previous entries and shows a switch up.
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote:No one has brought up yet that originally Ebirah was actually supposed to be fighting King Kong instead of Godzilla. Ebirah horror of the deep was originally supposed to have King Kong in Godzilla's place which would have made more sense. The giant condor and Ebirah would have been more intimidating against King Kong than Godzilla as King Kong doesn't have a beam which is the real advantage Godzilla had. Also Godzilla is a sea monster so there's presumably less danger in him being underwater compared to King Kong. Ebirah wasn't weak, he was just designed around facing an entirely different opponent.

As for Ebirah himself he's cool. I liked when he are those two people trying to escape, scary stuff. It's also cool how he's the first monster to fight underwater in the Godzilla series ignoring Manda vs Atragon. It's a nice switch up from the land battles from the previous entries and shows a switch up.
That's true, Ebirah's water advantage does give him an edge against Kong (unless Kong still had that lightning attack).

What I wouldn't give to see Godzilla fighting an opponent underwater (any opponent, not just Ebirah). I hope the new movies give Godzilla some water scenes or aquatic enemies.
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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Moguera24 wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:No one has brought up yet that originally Ebirah was actually supposed to be fighting King Kong instead of Godzilla. Ebirah horror of the deep was originally supposed to have King Kong in Godzilla's place which would have made more sense. The giant condor and Ebirah would have been more intimidating against King Kong than Godzilla as King Kong doesn't have a beam which is the real advantage Godzilla had. Also Godzilla is a sea monster so there's presumably less danger in him being underwater compared to King Kong. Ebirah wasn't weak, he was just designed around facing an entirely different opponent.

As for Ebirah himself he's cool. I liked when he are those two people trying to escape, scary stuff. It's also cool how he's the first monster to fight underwater in the Godzilla series ignoring Manda vs Atragon. It's a nice switch up from the land battles from the previous entries and shows a switch up.
That's true, Ebirah's water advantage does give him an edge against Kong (unless Kong still had that lightning attack).

What I wouldn't give to see Godzilla fighting an opponent underwater (any opponent, not just Ebirah). I hope the new movies give Godzilla some water scenes or aquatic enemies.
Godzilla has fought underwater:
Ebirah
Battra Larva (and mothra larva above).
King Ghidorah (GMK)
Kamoebas (off screen but counts).

Technically he fought Kiryu, Super X2 and Biollantes first form in water but it seemed relatively shallow. Godzilla has also fought a lot of ships at sea and has had monsters toss or knock him back in the water many times. I'm just surprised there was no underwater fight between Godzilla and Titanosaurus. I feel like Titano would be the superior underwater saurian.

Godzilla 1998 also fights a few subs underwater, it's one of the better scenes in the film.

I know this isn't about the comics but Godzilla fought:
Gezora, Manda, Destroyah, Ebirah, and Titanosaurus underwater. Some of those fights ended in a lame fashion but had some cool moments.
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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I know he's fought there, but:
-the Ebirah fight was mostly above water
-Battra and Godzilla were just standing upright, it would have been basically the same if they fought on land
-Ghidorah was only a small fraction of the fight, and was mostly covered in bubbles
-(also Hedorah and Ebirah fought godzilla underwater in FW of screen, that would have been cool to see)

What I really want to see is Godzilla swimming in a three dimensional undersea battlefield fighting an aquaticly-adept foe for a good amount of time. (This would probably be a CG job, due to the limitations of suitimation)
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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Moguera24 wrote:I know he's fought there, but:
-the Ebirah fight was mostly above water
-Battra and Godzilla were just standing upright, it would have been basically the same if they fought on land
-Ghidorah was only a small fraction of the fight, and was mostly covered in bubbles
-(also Hedorah and Ebirah fought godzilla underwater in FW of screen, that would have been cool to see)

What I really want to see is Godzilla swimming in a three dimensional undersea battlefield fighting an aquaticly-adept foe for a good amount of time. (This would probably be a CG job, due to the limitations of suitimation)
The underwater Ghidorah fight lasts longer than you think. I remember feeling that way last time I saw it.

The comic has some good underwater free fights, those indicate what it would be like.

One of the big difficulties I suppose of underwater fights is probably the lighting. Not to mention the suits are built with the intent of the monsters standing upright. Still I'm glad they tried to do what they did even if it never reached the full extent. At this point however I'm sick of underwater kaiju. There's way too many:
Godzilla, Manda, Gezora, Ebirah, Titano, Hedorah, Destroyah, Kameobas,Daghra, Zilla, Gaira and so on. Then there's tons of monsters capable of underwater fighting and shown to be at least decent swimmers (Kong, Varan, Battra). Id rather have more space fights!
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Re: Monster Discussion #18: Ebirah (Showa)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: The underwater Ghidorah fight lasts longer than you think. I remember feeling that way last time I saw it.

The comic has some good underwater free fights, those indicate what it would be like.

One of the big difficulties I suppose of underwater fights is probably the lighting. Not to mention the suits are built with the intent of the monsters standing upright. Still I'm glad they tried to do what they did even if it never reached the full extent. At this point however I'm sick of underwater kaiju. There's way too many:
Godzilla, Manda, Gezora, Ebirah, Titano, Hedorah, Destroyah, Kameobas,Daghra, Zilla, Gaira and so on. Then there's tons of monsters capable of underwater fighting and shown to be at least decent swimmers (Kong, Varan, Battra). Id rather have more space fights!
I haven't watched GMK in awhile, so I guess the Ghidorah fight feels a little fuzzy

Yeah the suit limitations really get in the way sometimes.

We really do have an over saturation of water monsters. I like to think of the reason for that is a representation for man's subconscious fear of what unknown creatures lurk in our oceans. At least for all the water monsters we have, they are all distinct and unique (except of course for the living underwater part).

Space battles would be interesting as well, although it really limits down the number of kaiju you can have fighting (pretty much all of them being villains, not that there's anything wrong with that ;) ). That battle in RotE with Gigan and Spacey was very cool.
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