Angirus in Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla and Godzilla's Entry

[miguelnuva]

I feel KPA's exploitation is a double edge sword. On one hand what he says makes a lot of sense but at the same time if we throw Godzilla, King Ceasar and Angurius against MechaGodzilla I feel that still keeps him a threat as we know Angurius on his own is a different beast then Angurius with Godzilla.

As for TOMG all that would have to be done is make Titanosaurs an equal match for Godzilla in their early fight and Angurius and Godzilla are still going in to an underdog fight.

[kpa]

as neat as the background is, you're welcome to drop in your two cents or opinions on it rather than giving the facts (eabaker coverd it all well and good, but since that's been done i figure there's no real reason to keep answering the same question ya know?). i mean yea i think most people get that Angirus showed up to make everyone later look good, but would you personally have preferred more screen time for him/a return to the battlefield?

I think I answered already when I wrote "I also don't think he should have been used". The amount of screentime he got in those films is fine with me, and I think using him in the final battles would have lessened key story points I liked in them.

as for the Rodan thing...i don't consider him a big name, nobody outside this fandom really knows the kaiju, and he's had nothing going for him since the Ghidorah films in the 60s, so it would be safe to say adding him wouldn't have been some huge bombshell.

Like eabaker explained, your impression of Rodan is a bit off. The 1956 film was an international hit, and when Toho made GHIDORAH they wanted to showcase their top three monster stars: Godzilla, Rodan and Mothra. Rodan and Godzilla were the co-stars of MONSTER ZERO, and Rodan was well-featured in DAM so by the time the Mechagodzilla movies were made he was long established as one of the studio's most famous monsters.

More recently Rodan was one of only six monsters -- the others being Godzilla, King Ghidorah, Mothra, Mechagodzilla, and Baby Godzilla -- to appear in all three Godzilla series. Rodan and Mothra were also part of the MONSTER PLANET OF GODZILLA theme-park attraction. Toho officially considers Rodan one of their "Big Five".

In the US, the Showa films with Rodan all got theatrical releases, played frequently on TV for decades and were released on home video. Besides the toys and models eabaker mentioned, Rodan is always included in the Godzilla product lines that feature other Toho monsters.... he was part of the first wave of Trendmasters Godzilla toys and has been featured in the Atari Games, the IDW Comics, etc. And the monster has referenced in many times in comics and on TV shows (THE SIMPSONS, SNL, THE COLBERT REPORT, ANIMANIACS, etc), and even Stephen King's novel It has a scene that was inspired by (and repeatedly names) Rodan. He's not Godzilla, but he is a part of pop culture in America.

[three]

i guess. pop culture in america though...i dunno how many recognize him at all. i'm not saying he's not one of the B5 but part of our pop culture? nah.

[ILL GREEN]

I just think that maybe they thought Anguirus was used too much like a sidekick and so Toho axed him from the plot and gave Godzilla a new different sidekick, King Ceasar.

[Crazy Jim Films]

Rodan is definitely one of the bigger names. I would say plenty of people outside of the fandom know who Rodan is. Despite being fazed out of the later 70's pictures, presumably for the reasons KPA mentioned, he is still one of the more iconic characters in the Godzilla universe. He was visually referenced on at least, two Simpsons episodes, I can think of and there was a nod to him in the Hulk Hogan film, "Suburban Commando" as well. I think outside of Godzilla himself and possibly Mothra, Rodan is the most well-known Toho monster there is. Anguirus, despite several appearances in the 70's films, never quite got there, but his name is also a likely contributing factor as well.

[three]

Rodan is definitely one of the bigger names. I would say plenty of people outside of the fandom know who Rodan is. Despite being fazed out of the later 70's pictures, presumably for the reasons KPA mentioned, he is still one of the more iconic characters in the Godzilla universe. He was visually referenced on at least, two Simpsons episodes, I can think of and there was a nod to him in the Hulk Hogan film, "Suburban Commando" as well. I think outside of Godzilla himself and possibly Mothra, Rodan is the most well-known Toho monster there is. Anguirus, despite several appearances in the 70's films, never quite got there, but his name is also a likely contributing factor as well.

it also probably helps that Rodan doesn't necessarily need to be "known" to be recognized. a giant pterosaur is something i think plenty of different people are familiar with -- and to be honest Rodan's design is pretty simple so...

[Godsteigman]

In TOG I would have liked to have seen any of Godzilla's allies such as Anguirus. There is no mention of Monster Island , maybe it didnt exist or that was dropped..we know Rodan, Manda and Ghidorah did exist ...but I wonder where in the timeline this fit, before or after DAM which was *in the year 1999*.
I get the feeling that 1999 part of G-history was *forgotten* post DAM...so despite continunity these movies are for our entertainment and happiness anyway ..
TOG was the last of the Showa series..but would it have still been called the Showa series if those unmade G films actually were made prior to Godzilla 1984 ?
My curiosity is always about what if's such as movies that werent made between TOG and Godzilla 1984.
I wonder how fans felt after there were no Godzilla movies for nearly 10 years after having basically a yearly Godzilla movie for over a decade ! Some Godzilla sized withdrawals im sure

[eabaker]

TOG was the last of the Showa series..but would it have still been called the Showa series if those unmade G films actually were made prior to Godzilla 1984 ?

Well, 1984 was still part of the Showa era, historically. Technically, Biollante was the first Godzilla film produced during the Heisei era. When it comes to the Godzilla series, those names are loose approximations (one of the reasons I still kinda lean towards calling the second series the "vs." series).

[Gothicserpent]

One question I have, how come Toho never used the King Caeser suit after GvMG?

Toho is notorious for reusing their suits, so why not KC? He could have easily been shoved in to TOMG, not that I'd want him to.

[three]

Eh, eabaker explained that best when he said king caesar was a very plot specific monster. It isn't as easy as "hey look KC showed up guys!" (Not saying that's what you're saying)...but we know how bad final wars was. I don't consider it all that great a compass for this sort of thing.

[Mecha-SpaceGhidorah]

^I agree, but let's be honest; if Toho wanted to use King Caesar again, for anything, they just would have. Reasons, logic, or contractions be damned. So that does leave the question of "why?" since, as Gothicserpent pointed out, they love to reuse suits.

EDIT: My guess is that no one ever really cared to/never found a plot they wanted to shove him into. Nothing any more or less complicated than that.

[three]

^I agree, but let's be honest; if Toho wanted to use King Caesar again, for anything, they just would have. Reasons, logic, or contractions be damned. So that does leave the question of "why?" since, as Gothicserpent pointed out, they love to reuse suits.

EDIT: My guess is that no one ever really cared to/never found a plot they wanted to shove him into. Nothing any more or less complicated than that.

you're right. the problem is he just wasn't popular i suppose. fans love their Angirus, Rodan, etc. but KC? eh. take or leave. and toward the end of showa, that's how they were thinking (with ticket sales down).


EDIT: yes yes before it happens: "if they worried unpopular monsters would hurt ticket sales why'd they introduce a new one?" dunno why they chose Titanosaurus, but again this is toward the end of the era. KC is kinda hard to work in (logic be damned or not it's not easy to just discard the entire previous movie's logic when you're using half of the same monsters and the same villains) so, why he never came back in showa its understandable. one movie left, and he didn't fit in.

heisei was something else entirely. everything got reinvented. a golem from the past doesn't fit in very well to that world.

we saw what happened when he was brought back in millennium. he looked good but was part of a ridiculously stupid action sequence. and now my head hurts.

[Gothicserpent]

He could have easily been shoved in to TOMG

Not easily.

They kind of need a mirage of the sun rising in the west just in order to free him from his place of slumber, and then there's the whole breaking out into song...

And, y'know, he's all the way out on Okinawa. I don't think golems can swim all that well.

Those are very good points, but I just find it odd that Toho would NEVER use the suit again.

They didn't even loan the suits to Ultraman ripoffs like they did with a few of theirs.

[KaijuFiend]

I found it a little odd that Anguirus didn't come back for the final fight in GvMG or join the fight in ToMG. It would have been amazing if he came back, blazing with rage and ready to kick some MechaGodzilla butt. Rodan's absence feels odd in GvMG as well, though in ToMG they refer to him as one of the "disaster monsters", so I guess he went rogue and turned evil at some point.

[miguelnuva]

I found it a little odd that Anguirus didn't come back for the final fight in GvMG or join the fight in ToMG. It would have been amazing if he came back, blazing with rage and ready to kick some MechaGodzilla butt. Rodan's absence feels odd in GvMG as well, though in ToMG they refer to him as one of the "disaster monsters", so I guess he went rogue and turned evil at some point.

Rodan retired and came out one last time for DAM.