Monster Discussion #15: King Ghidorah (Showa)

[BlankAccount]

One of the best things about GTTHM is also one of the most frustrating. The alien builds up Ghidorah as this living apocalypse, that destroyed her planet in less than a year. And when he finally pops out of of his meteor, he proves it. Spewing beams like Godzilla and flying at high speeds like Rodan and Mothra, he destroys most if not all of a city in mere seconds, something that took Godzilla seemingly an hour or half an hour in his first film, and the two Rodans minutes in theirs.

And then for the rest of the series he doesn't quite cause as much devastation. He destroyes stuff sure, but no where near as impressive as when he first showed up. Still, that first time is pretty wow. You do see how destructive he can be when he doesn't have another monster to contend with.

What exactly are Ghidorah‘s Gravity Beams? What are they made up of? Plasma? Electricity? Some unknown state of matter? It's never really explained and I'd really like to know.

Gravity of course! It's right there in the name!

Last time I checked, gravity doesn't cause explosions.

Just another reason I would love to see him get a character analysis.

As supposedly powerful as he is, I find it hard to believe that a monster his size can devestate entire planets like Mars lol.

Maybe he takes a couple weeks to destroy every city, then wrecks havoc with the planet's climate and gravity?

He probably kills off enough animals in the ecosystem that surviving animals die from lack of food. Cause direct mass extinction of one animal species tends to cause indirect mass extinction of others that rely on it for food or population control.

[Cybermat47]

And then for the rest of the series he doesn't quite cause as much devastation. He destroyes stuff sure, but no where near as impressive as when he first showed up. Still, that first time is pretty wow. You do see how destructive he can be when he doesn't have another monster to contend with.

I don’t think Ghidorah ever had the same level of power in the post-GTTHM films, or in ZF. He causes less destruction, he’s easier to defeat, and he eventually dies in an easily avoidable fight. And, he never acts of his own free will again - he’s always under mind control. The Xiliens, Nebula M Space Hunter Aliens, Garogas, and Kilaaks control him in every other appearance.

But perhaps that’s why he becomes less impressive as time goes on. Maybe all that mind control fried his brains.

[BlankAccount]

And, he never acts of his own free will again - he’s always under mind control....Nebula M Space Hunter Aliens,.

People always seem to forget Gigan and Ghidorah continue the fight of their own free will once the mind control is broken, they didn't just fly away once the Godzilla Tower was destroyed.

[Billzilla1974]

And, he never acts of his own free will again - he’s always under mind control....Nebula M Space Hunter Aliens,.

People always seem to forget Gigan and Ghidorah continue the fight of their own free will once the mind control is broken, they didn't just fly away once the Godzilla Tower was destroyed.

Not to mention that while he was under the control of the roaches, King Ghidorah was able to fight the early 70s Godzilla on even footing, sure most of said fight was stock footage, but still.

As for how KG was able to life-wipe Venus so quickly, maybe we should take a look at its atmosphere? it's close to 100 times the pressure of Earth's, so I guess a long term side effect from KG's gravity beams is increased gravity/pressure in the area they hit?

[edgaguirus]

When it comes to planet destruction, I think Ghidorah does it by being completely indiscriminant. He targets everything. This would destroy homes, industry, agriculture ( assuming the Venusians had any), and all life where ever he goes. The food chain and eco system would effected, as well as the ability to produce food and needed goods. Basically, civilization would fall to pieces and it would be chaos.

[Cybermat47]

People always seem to forget Gigan and Ghidorah continue the fight of their own free will once the mind control is broken, they didn't just fly away once the Godzilla Tower was destroyed.

Yeah, I was simplifying things for the sake of conciseness (which just made things unclear, so good job me). But still, Ghidorah was only there because of the mind control, and his terrible performance in the ensuing battle woukd make sense of my brain damage idea.

Not to mention that while he was under the control of the roaches, King Ghidorah was able to fight the early 70s Godzilla on even footing, sure most of said fight was stock footage, but still.

Exactly - King Ghidorah, who previously took the combined efforts of Godzilla, Rodan (who was at least very close to being Godzilla’s equal in the Shōwa series) and Mothra to defeat is now on an even footing with a weaker monster. Something has definitely happened to King Ghidorah.

[BlankAccount]

Exactly - King Ghidorah, who previously took the combined efforts of Godzilla, Rodan (who was at least very close to being Godzilla’s equal in the Shōwa series) and Mothra to defeat is now on an even footing with a weaker monster. Something has definitely happened to King Ghidorah.

Budget constraints.

[Cybermat47]

Exactly - King Ghidorah, who previously took the combined efforts of Godzilla, Rodan (who was at least very close to being Godzilla’s equal in the Shōwa series) and Mothra to defeat is now on an even footing with a weaker monster. Something has definitely happened to King Ghidorah.

Budget constraints.

King Ghidorah’s one weakness!

[Zarm]

Exactly - King Ghidorah, who previously took the combined efforts of Godzilla, Rodan (who was at least very close to being Godzilla’s equal in the Shōwa series) and Mothra to defeat is now on an even footing with a weaker monster. Something has definitely happened to King Ghidorah.

Budget constraints.

Not at all what you meant, but I love the idea that King Ghidorah has a budget for destroying planets. "Well, blew all my cash wreckin' Venus- gonna have to do it the cheap way here on Earth until I can get some endorsements, get a little spending cash again..."

That's why he comes after Godzilla again and again- the merchandising rights are already monopolized, and that's going to block any chance of a serious cash flow unless he can get the King of the Monsters out of the way.

[Billzilla1974]

Not to mention that while he was under the control of the roaches, King Ghidorah was able to fight the early 70s Godzilla on even footing, sure most of said fight was stock footage, but still.

Exactly - King Ghidorah, who previously took the combined efforts of Godzilla, Rodan (who was at least very close to being Godzilla’s equal in the Shōwa series) and Mothra to defeat is now on an even footing with a weaker monster. Something has definitely happened to King Ghidorah.

Or, y'know, Godzilla became stronger, why is Showa Godzilla becoming stronger such a foreign concept to you guys I wonder. I don't see how Ghidorah became weaker at all. he took 3 monsters to defeat in the 60s, with Goji and Rodan just barely driving KG away, and at least 3 far more powerful ones to kill him in DAM, Ghiddy didn't get weaker, his foes got stronger. During Zone Fighter KG tossed around the 55,000 ton Zone and was only able to be stopped with help from both Smokey and Zone Great's lightning cloud in their battle on earth, that isn't a weak showing at all. Not to mention Showa G in 1972 and onwards is obviously much stronger than he was in 1964.

[BlankAccount]

Not to mention that while he was under the control of the roaches, King Ghidorah was able to fight the early 70s Godzilla on even footing, sure most of said fight was stock footage, but still.

Exactly - King Ghidorah, who previously took the combined efforts of Godzilla, Rodan (who was at least very close to being Godzilla’s equal in the Shōwa series) and Mothra to defeat is now on an even footing with a weaker monster. Something has definitely happened to King Ghidorah.

Or, y'know, Godzilla became stronger, why is Showa Godzilla becoming stronger such a foreign concept to you guys I wonder. I don't see how Ghidorah became weaker at all. he took 3 monsters to defeat in the 60s, with Goji and Rodan just barely driving KG away, and at least 3 far more powerful ones to kill him in DAM, Ghiddy didn't get weaker, his foes got stronger. During Zone Fighter KG tossed around the 55,000 ton Zone and was only able to be stopped with help from both Smokey and Zone Great's lightning cloud in their battle on earth, that isn't a weak showing at all. Not to mention Showa G in 1972 and onwards is obviously much stronger than he was in 1964.

I think if they had the budget and time and tech back then, they probably would have gone with King Ghidorah fighting all the monsters in DAM and not just a handful.

[Billzilla1974]

I think if they had the budget and time and tech back then, they probably would have gone with King Ghidorah fighting all the monsters in DAM and not just a handful.

True, I feel like that was the original intention, DAM would probably rank higher for most people if the final fight came out like that. At the very least it would've justified the hype that DAM had.

[UltramanGoji]

True, I feel like that was the original intention, DAM would probably rank higher for most people if the final fight came out like that.

People dislike DAM because the human story is very weak. The special effects scenes are pretty much universally praised.

[Cybermat47]

Or, y'know, Godzilla became stronger, why is Showa Godzilla becoming stronger such a foreign concept to you guys I wonder. I don't see how Ghidorah became weaker at all. he took 3 monsters to defeat in the 60s, with Goji and Rodan just barely driving KG away, and at least 3 far more powerful ones to kill him in DAM, Ghiddy didn't get weaker, his foes got stronger. During Zone Fighter KG tossed around the 55,000 ton Zone and was only able to be stopped with help from both Smokey and Zone Great's lightning cloud in their battle on earth, that isn't a weak showing at all. Not to mention Showa G in 1972 and onwards is obviously much stronger than he was in 1964.

I wouldn’t say that Gorosaurus, Minilla, or Anguirus are much stronger than Rodan. The first Anguirus was killed by Godzilla in their encounter, while Rodan kicked Godzilla’s ass when they first met.

I certainly think that Godzilla got smarter, but not really more powerful - just as I never said that Ghidorah got weaker, only that his mind got fried from the constant mind control.

We see Godzilla use his existing powers in new ways, which indicates he’s getting smarter, but no new powers until he inexplicably turned himself into a magnet - after all the Shōwa Ghidorah films had already been made. Yes, DAM takes place after GvMG, but I doubt DAM was made with the events of GvMG in mind, especially considering that DAM was meant to be the last film.

[Billzilla1974]

True, I feel like that was the original intention, DAM would probably rank higher for most people if the final fight came out like that.

People dislike DAM because the human story is very weak. The special effects scenes are pretty much universally praised.

I know that, but since much of the hype around DAM is the final battle, I feel like if they actually had the budget and time to have every earth monster attack Ghidorah at once, then it would probably be more well liked.
Most people remember DAM as the film that didn't deliver the "ultimate monster mash" and had a boring human plot, with more time and money, the final battle could've been awesome enough to make up for the rest of the films flaws.

[BlankAccount]

I think if they had the budget and time and tech back then, they probably would have gone with King Ghidorah fighting all the monsters in DAM and not just a handful.

True, I feel like that was the original intention, DAM would probably rank higher for most people if the final fight came out like that. At the very least it would've justified the hype that DAM had.

I know they wanted King Kong in it but never really went out to get the rights again because he's expensive as hell and even if he wasn't he was and still is a copyright nightmare.

[Cybermat47]

True, I feel like that was the original intention, DAM would probably rank higher for most people if the final fight came out like that.

People dislike DAM because the human story is very weak. The special effects scenes are pretty much universally praised.

I know that, but since much of the hype around DAM is the final battle, I feel like if they actually had the budget and time to have every earth monster attack Ghidorah at once, then it would probably be more well liked.
Most people remember DAM as the film that didn't deliver the "ultimate monster mash" and had a boring human plot, with more time and money, the final battle could've been awesome enough to make up for the rest of the films flaws.

I say we travel back in time and give Ishiro Honda the entire economy of the United States.

[Billzilla1974]

Or, y'know, Godzilla became stronger, why is Showa Godzilla becoming stronger such a foreign concept to you guys I wonder. I don't see how Ghidorah became weaker at all. he took 3 monsters to defeat in the 60s, with Goji and Rodan just barely driving KG away, and at least 3 far more powerful ones to kill him in DAM, Ghiddy didn't get weaker, his foes got stronger. During Zone Fighter KG tossed around the 55,000 ton Zone and was only able to be stopped with help from both Smokey and Zone Great's lightning cloud in their battle on earth, that isn't a weak showing at all. Not to mention Showa G in 1972 and onwards is obviously much stronger than he was in 1964.

I wouldn’t say that Gorosaurus, Minilla, or Anguirus are much stronger than Rodan. The first Anguirus was killed by Godzilla in their encounter, while Rodan kicked Godzilla’s ass when they first met.

I certainly think that Godzilla got smarter, but not really more powerful - just as I never said that Ghidorah got weaker, only that his mind got fried from the constant mind control.

We see Godzilla use his existing powers in new ways, which indicates he’s getting smarter, but no new powers until he inexplicably turned himself into a magnet - after all the Shōwa Ghidorah films had already been made. Yes, DAM takes place after GvMG, but I doubt DAM was made with the events of GvMG in mind, especially considering that DAM was meant to be the last film.

Maybe Gorosaurus isn't more powerful than Rodan, but Godzilla and Anguirus in 1999 probably are.
The first Anguirus wasn't on the same level of strength as the second one, and I'd say the Godzilla vs Rodan fight in GTTHM was pretty even. Godzilla was too slow at the time to keep up with Rodan, but Rodan lacked the firepower to gain a serious advantage over mid-60s Goji.

Showa Godzilla was definitely getting physically stronger, from barely tossing the 30,000 ton Ghidorah a short distance to throwing an 80,000 ton Spyler onto his head, not to mention Godzilla in 1975 survived the all out assault by MG2 that would probably kill 60s Showa G in a few seconds.

Personally while the Ghidorah suit obviously degraded with each appearance, I don't see many changes in his behavior throughout his fights.

Added in 1 minute 41 seconds:

People dislike DAM because the human story is very weak. The special effects scenes are pretty much universally praised.

I know that, but since much of the hype around DAM is the final battle, I feel like if they actually had the budget and time to have every earth monster attack Ghidorah at once, then it would probably be more well liked.
Most people remember DAM as the film that didn't deliver the "ultimate monster mash" and had a boring human plot, with more time and money, the final battle could've been awesome enough to make up for the rest of the films flaws.

I say we travel back in time and give Ishiro Honda the entire economy of the United States.

[Cybermat47]

Hopefully the Legendary Ghidorah takes its cues from the Ghidorah we saw in GTTHM.

Honestly, I think that Ghidorah is much better when he isn’t under mind control, though I do enjoy the stories where he is.

[edgaguirus]

Those movies where he was an alien pawn are fun.

For the Legendary film, it would be nice to see a Ghidorah that has the power to push Godzilla to his limits.