Ghidrah/ Monster Zero: Connection

[kamilleblu]

Does anyone think that the sequel to King Ghidorah's introductory film should have developed the helpful alien story more? Although it didn't have to dominate the film or change the story too much, I think it would have been interesting to learn more about the aliens that took over the princess and warned Earth about Ghidorah. In Monster Zero, while I'm fond of what we got, I don't even think King Ghidorah's back story is even mentioned. Maybe Toho could have revealed details about the dragon's creation/birth/rampages and why he eventually became a mindless puppet for various alien races. Any other thoughts on the matter?

[Mahemium]

I like to think the Xilians were already in control of Ghidorah in his introductory film, and it was because he was so soundly defeated by Godzilla, Rodan and Mothra, that they went to the effort of gaining control of the former two.

[MustafaDaisenso]

I like to think the Xilians were already in control of Ghidorah in his introductory film, and it was because he was so soundly defeated by Godzilla, Rodan and Mothra, that they went to the effort of gaining control of the former two.

Interesting idea, but I don't think there's any reason to suspect as much. Surely if Ghidorah was under the control of a hostile power the Martians would have sensed it and relayed such information to Salno. Aside from that, Ghidorah's first attack on Earth isn't very strategic; he just flies around randomly destroying infrastructure, whereas in MZ he was deployed as a weapon against North America and later with Godzilla and Rodan against the JSDF.

As to the 'Xiens having control over him the whole time' theory, it's too big of a plot hole to think that they'd purposely allow Ghidorah to destroy their civilization and force them underground. its more than likely that they actually had a need to defeat Ghidorah, and that his rampage made it necessary for them to take control of Godzilla, Rodan and King Ghidorah in order to colonize Earth, since their own planet was ruined.

[ScootaVaran]

The Xilians probably saw the opportunity to take control of Ghidorahs mind after he was weaken from the battle on Earth.

[Legion1979]

Does anyone think that the sequel to King Ghidorah's introductory film should have developed the helpful alien story more?

No. The movie entertains the shit out of me. That's all that matters.

[Arbok]

Invasion of Astro-Monster is one of the best paced films of Honda's career, so I think adding more back story to Ghidorah would have hurt that and also detracted from the main subject of the film: the Xilien.

[three]

to be honest, i found it odd that the humans were naive enough to believe the aliens about Ghidorah being an evil monster they wanted to defeat. i mean the connection to aliens was already established in TTHM, and then this race of aliens conveniently shows up and needs 2/3s of the monsters that beat Ghidorah before to come to their planet (which was just attacked by Ghidorah) to defeat the same monster. it sounds too fishy to be believable. an obvious trap.

[eabaker]

Invasion of Astro-Monster is one of the best paced films of Honda's career, so I think adding more back story to Ghidorah would have hurt that and also detracted from the main subject of the film: the Xilien.

I agree 100%. I also feel like that would have added excess continuity to what function very well as two largely separate movies.

[JAGzilla]

to be honest, i found it odd that the humans were naive enough to believe the aliens about Ghidorah being an evil monster they wanted to defeat. i mean the connection to aliens was already established in TTHM, and then this race of aliens conveniently shows up and needs 2/3s of the monsters that beat Ghidorah before to come to their planet (which was just attacked by Ghidorah) to defeat the same monster. it sounds too fishy to be believable. an obvious trap.

All that was established in GTTHM was that Ghidorah wiped out the Venusians at some point in the distant past. That had (and has) no visible connection to the Xilliens. As for the Xilliens asking to borrow Godzilla and Rodan, why is that suspicious? It makes perfect sense. The Xilliens apparently have no means of bringing Ghidorah down, so they turn to a solution they've seen to be effective. On top of that, it gets Godzilla and Rodan away from Earth, which is something humanity has been trying to do for years. It's totally understandable that Japan would be eager to take advantage of an opportunity like this.

[three]

to be honest, i found it odd that the humans were naive enough to believe the aliens about Ghidorah being an evil monster they wanted to defeat. i mean the connection to aliens was already established in TTHM, and then this race of aliens conveniently shows up and needs 2/3s of the monsters that beat Ghidorah before to come to their planet (which was just attacked by Ghidorah) to defeat the same monster. it sounds too fishy to be believable. an obvious trap.

All that was established in GTTHM was that Ghidorah wiped out the Venusians at some point in the distant past. That had (and has) no visible connection to the Xilliens. As for the Xilliens asking to borrow Godzilla and Rodan, why is that suspicious? It makes perfect sense. The Xilliens apparently have no means of bringing Ghidorah down, so they turn to a solution they've seen to be effective. On top of that, it gets Godzilla and Rodan away from Earth, which is something humanity has been trying to do for years. It's totally understandable that Japan would be eager to take advantage of an opportunity like this.

i always understood that in GTTHM, Ghidorah was of otherworldly origins and the princess had some ties to the aliens. this may be the result of only ever seeing the dubbed version of the movie, so i can't say with certainty why i remember there being more of an alien connection to Ghidorah. they always were established as far as i was concerned....oh right! the princess died in the plane crash and was replaced with an alien stand in (this was probably my rational, because i don't have a legit answer).

anyway, the whole idea of humans trusting aliens seemed really out of character. i mean our response to something like a tribe discovered is usually to arm ourselves and make them submit before asking questions, so simply bowing to an alien race who happens to need our monsters to fight a threat that came from space to our planet is out of the blue, ya know?

[Tohosaurus]

In reality I would believe that the loose continuity of many Showa films is paramount here. I don't think there's really supposed to be a major connection. One can certainly be put together, but aside from the first three or four movies and some other occasional pieces of continuity, I don't know that Astro Monster is really meant to be a continuity sequel to Ghidorah.

[JAGzilla]

i always understood that in GTTHM, Ghidorah was of otherworldly origins and the princess had some ties to the aliens. this may be the result of only ever seeing the dubbed version of the movie, so i can't say with certainty why i remember there being more of an alien connection to Ghidorah. they always were established as far as i was concerned....oh right! the princess died in the plane crash and was replaced with an alien stand in (this was probably my rational, because i don't have a legit answer).

anyway, the whole idea of humans trusting aliens seemed really out of character. i mean our response to something like a tribe discovered is usually to arm ourselves and make them submit before asking questions, so simply bowing to an alien race who happens to need our monsters to fight a threat that came from space to our planet is out of the blue, ya know?

The princess survived the plane crash due to some sort of wormhole type thing, and was possessed by an alien spirit after that. But to the best of my recollection, nobody ever said anything in that movie about Ghidorah being connected to aliens. All that was said is that he kills them.

[three]

i always understood that in GTTHM, Ghidorah was of otherworldly origins and the princess had some ties to the aliens. this may be the result of only ever seeing the dubbed version of the movie, so i can't say with certainty why i remember there being more of an alien connection to Ghidorah. they always were established as far as i was concerned....oh right! the princess died in the plane crash and was replaced with an alien stand in (this was probably my rational, because i don't have a legit answer).

anyway, the whole idea of humans trusting aliens seemed really out of character. i mean our response to something like a tribe discovered is usually to arm ourselves and make them submit before asking questions, so simply bowing to an alien race who happens to need our monsters to fight a threat that came from space to our planet is out of the blue, ya know?

The princess survived the plane crash due to some sort of wormhole type thing, and was possessed by an alien spirit after that. But to the best of my recollection, nobody ever said anything in that movie about Ghidorah being connected to aliens. All that was said is that he kills them.

yea, you're right on reflection. i assumed that because the previous kaiju to defeat Godzilla were in the movie, and the aliens knew about them (as well as the confusing princess thing) i established the continuity myself. but hey --- it makes sense when you chew on it for a while.

[Beef Bigshot]

i think monster zero is fine the way it is. it is honestly one of my favorite movies that is paced perfectly

[eabaker]

Princess Salno was not possessed by an alien, she was one of many humans actually descended from aliens, and the events awoke her Venusian consciousness.

[Ethan]

Princess Salno was not possessed by an alien, she was one of many humans actually descended from aliens, and the events awoke her Venusian consciousness.

This. You'd have to watch the Japanese cut to know this, however.

Not so. Her lines in the English dub, though switching Venus to Mars, are very clear about her heritage:

"I... I am a Martian...

Yes of course, but then, uh, there aren't very many of you Martians here on the Earth. How did you come here?

A certain few Martians who, escaped to Earth on the day Mars died.

How long ago?

Oh, several millennia.

Three-thousand years? And you've been living here ever since then?

Of course not, not one of them are alive. Those were our ancestors who reached Earth. As they gradually became Earthlings, their highly developed minds degenerated, and only one instinct remained as a legacy from them."

[Mahemium]

I like to think the Xilians were already in control of Ghidorah in his introductory film, and it was because he was so soundly defeated by Godzilla, Rodan and Mothra, that they went to the effort of gaining control of the former two.

Interesting idea, but I don't think there's any reason to suspect as much. Surely if Ghidorah was under the control of a hostile power the Martians would have sensed it and relayed such information to Salno. Aside from that, Ghidorah's first attack on Earth isn't very strategic; he just flies around randomly destroying infrastructure, whereas in MZ he was deployed as a weapon against North America and later with Godzilla and Rodan against the JSDF.

As to the 'Xiens having control over him the whole time' theory, it's too big of a plot hole to think that they'd purposely allow Ghidorah to destroy their civilization and force them underground. its more than likely that they actually had a need to defeat Ghidorah, and that his rampage made it necessary for them to take control of Godzilla, Rodan and King Ghidorah in order to colonize Earth, since their own planet was ruined.

Fair enough, it's just a strange little view I have. Given Planet X is right behind Jupiter, the planet with a civilisation that was wiped out by Ghidorah thousands of years before(at least according to the subs I watch), it just seems odd if the humanoids on Planet X had survived from Ghidorahs attacks for all that time. Another thing that struck me as odd is the fact they knew that Monster 01 and Monster 02, Godzilla and Rodan, had driven Ghidorah away to begin with, seemingly with psychic power or what have you, yet couldn't use that power to realise that devices they had a weakness to were about to used against them.

It just makes more sense to me thinking that Planet X had greedily used all their resources, and when they did, they used Ghidorah to destroy Jupiters civilisations to take theirs, and when that ran out, they tried the same thing with Earth.

Edit: After just watching the film again, even Dr. Sakurai says "King Ghidorah was under their control the whole time" at some point in the film.

[three]

just how much connection i thought it had without knowing there really wasn't one should be proof enough that the films tie together well. i'm not saying "oh look i'm smart and got confused" i'm saying the films tie in enough that an average fan would probably assume they're brother and sister, which i think is the best way to look at 'em personally.

[miguelnuva]

Monster Zero screams squeal to GTTHM.

At the end of the first movie we know two things, Godzilla now has allies in t he form of ROdan and Mothra and Ghidorah is a threat the earth has to deal with again. MZ follows this formula only getting rid of Mothra but we still have a movie where Godzilla now has an allies and their fighting for the world verus before fights were mostly for Japan.

[three]

Monster Zero screams squeal to GTTHM.

At the end of the first movie we know two things, Godzilla now has allies in t he form of ROdan and Mothra and Ghidorah is a threat the earth has to deal with again. MZ follows this formula only getting rid of Mothra but we still have a movie where Godzilla now has an allies and their fighting for the world verus before fights were mostly for Japan.

someone here gets it


nah, you all get it but migel here said it best. this film begs for you to take it as a sequel. the aliens who probably sent Ghidorah are seen with him on their planet, they know of the kaiju who bested him earlier, they take them away so that Ghidorah can handle Earth, and then send them back to aid in the destruction. it all points to the established facts we have from the previous film.

and that also is why i wouldn't trust those damn aliens. no way in hell these guys conveniently show up and need our monsters because Ghidorah went to their homeworld. he's alien, they're alien, they're probably together! then again, judging from the level of trust i assume most of you guys don't trust your instincts too often, so....(trust that feeling in your corns because something's amiss).