Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released before 1980.
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Bluezilla 65
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by Bluezilla 65 »

I actually prefer Toho's and Kong 76 to Peter Jackson's take on the character. Kong 05 was too much like a real giant gorilla instead of being a giant monster ape. In 33 they didn't know much about the behavior of actual wild gorillas so they created something that was more an homage to a giant gorilla. Gigantopethicus fossils weren't discovered until 1935 or that would probably have been the basis for Kong 33.

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ShyGuyPal101
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by ShyGuyPal101 »

I just finished watching King Kong vs. Godzilla a few minutes ago (been putting it off for awhile because I wanted to save it for a rainy night).

I really liked it! The movie was alright but I was happy to see King Kong and Godzilla duke it out.
Godzilla clearly had the upper hand, but that last moment with electricity obviously put Godzilla at equals with Kong.

I liked the personality Kong had, like whenever he got hit he had this 'whoa, what was that?' kind of reaction. Then he'd shake it off and go back to fight. He showed perseverance and intelligence when fighting Godzilla. He kind of showed that in King Kong Escapes too but it's been awhile so I forgot how his portrayal was. Anyways, as much as I like Godzilla, I was happy to see King Kong come out the victor!

In the end, Toho King Kong is one of my favorite Toho monsters. I'll have to rewatch the 2005 King Kong because I remember really liking it (that scene with the giant insects is brutal though).

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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by The One and Only »

ShyGuyPal101 wrote:I just finished watching King Kong vs. Godzilla a few minutes ago (been putting it off for awhile because I wanted to save it for a rainy night).

I really liked it! The movie was alright but I was happy to see King Kong and Godzilla duke it out.
Godzilla clearly had the upper hand, but that last moment with electricity obviously put Godzilla at equals with Kong.

I liked the personality Kong had, like whenever he got hit he had this 'whoa, what was that?' kind of reaction. Then he'd shake it off and go back to fight. He showed perseverance and intelligence when fighting Godzilla. He kind of showed that in King Kong Escapes too but it's been awhile so I forgot how his portrayal was. Anyways, as much as I like Godzilla, I was happy to see King Kong come out the victor!

In the end, Toho King Kong is one of my favorite Toho monsters. I'll have to rewatch the 2005 King Kong because I remember really liking it (that scene with the giant insects is brutal though).
What happened to Cookie was exceptionally nasty. Made my mom squirm in her seat in the theater.
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gojimantis
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by gojimantis »

here's a pic from 1984 of the Kong and Gorosaurus suits:
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Bluezilla 65
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by Bluezilla 65 »

Great photo. Kong hasn't aged well. Gone bald. :D

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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by 123go »

Here's a question. How would Kong fare against say Gigan or Megalon?

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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by gojimantis »

123go wrote:Here's a question. How would Kong fare against say Gigan or Megalon?
i think
Kong vs. Megalon would be fun!
You have your fear which might become reality. And you have Godzilla, which *is* reality.

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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by Mahemium »

123go wrote:Here's a question. How would Kong fare against say Gigan or Megalon?
I've wondered that myself, though I'm fairly sure Kong would come out on top in both cases if he's thunder charged. His confrontation with Goji demonstrated that Toho Kong is utterly relentless and absolutely doesn't stop unless he's knocked out. Add a thunder charge to the mix and I'm sure he he'd even give the likes of MechaGodzilla or King Ghidorah a run for their money.

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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by JAGzilla »

Mahemium wrote:
I've wondered that myself, though I'm fairly sure Kong would come out on top in both cases if he's thunder charged. His confrontation with Goji demonstrated that Toho Kong is utterly relentless and absolutely doesn't stop unless he's knocked out. Add a thunder charge to the mix and I'm sure he he'd even give the likes of MechaGodzilla or King Ghidorah a run for their money.
Correction: Thunder-charged Kong is utterly relentless and absolutely doesn't stop unless he's knocked out. Without the electrical power boost, he's much more cautious and hesitant in battle. In his first encounter with Godzilla, he wasted no time retreating once he realized he was fighting a flamethrower. Same with the second battle: his first reaction was to head for cover, and didn't start fighting until he had surprise on his side.

And even thunder-charged, I don't know how well he'd stand up to a beam-spammer like Ghidorah or Mechagodzilla. He had a hard time standing up to Godzilla's ray, and that wasn't an especially powerful weapon. A few gravity bolts or chest lasers would likely flatten him.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by 123go »

JAGzilla wrote:
Mahemium wrote:
I've wondered that myself, though I'm fairly sure Kong would come out on top in both cases if he's thunder charged. His confrontation with Goji demonstrated that Toho Kong is utterly relentless and absolutely doesn't stop unless he's knocked out. Add a thunder charge to the mix and I'm sure he he'd even give the likes of MechaGodzilla or King Ghidorah a run for their money.
Correction: Thunder-charged Kong is utterly relentless and absolutely doesn't stop unless he's knocked out. Without the electrical power boost, he's much more cautious and hesitant in battle. In his first encounter with Godzilla, he wasted no time retreating once he realized he was fighting a flamethrower. Same with the second battle: his first reaction was to head for cover, and didn't start fighting until he had surprise on his side.

And even thunder-charged, I don't know how well he'd stand up to a beam-spammer like Ghidorah or Mechagodzilla. He had a hard time standing up to Godzilla's ray, and that wasn't an especially powerful weapon. A few gravity bolts or chest lasers would likely flatten him.
I think Kong would take out a Gigan or Megalon even without electricity chargeness. However, even electricity Kong would probably not come out on top 1 on 1 with Ghidorah or Mechagodzilla. Tough to say, though. He was pretty scary when he got mad. Relentless is a good way to put it.

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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by shippersdreamer »

123go wrote:
JAGzilla wrote:
Mahemium wrote:
I've wondered that myself, though I'm fairly sure Kong would come out on top in both cases if he's thunder charged. His confrontation with Goji demonstrated that Toho Kong is utterly relentless and absolutely doesn't stop unless he's knocked out. Add a thunder charge to the mix and I'm sure he he'd even give the likes of MechaGodzilla or King Ghidorah a run for their money.
Correction: Thunder-charged Kong is utterly relentless and absolutely doesn't stop unless he's knocked out. Without the electrical power boost, he's much more cautious and hesitant in battle. In his first encounter with Godzilla, he wasted no time retreating once he realized he was fighting a flamethrower. Same with the second battle: his first reaction was to head for cover, and didn't start fighting until he had surprise on his side.

And even thunder-charged, I don't know how well he'd stand up to a beam-spammer like Ghidorah or Mechagodzilla. He had a hard time standing up to Godzilla's ray, and that wasn't an especially powerful weapon. A few gravity bolts or chest lasers would likely flatten him.
I think Kong would take out a Gigan or Megalon even without electricity chargeness. However, even electricity Kong would probably not come out on top 1 on 1 with Ghidorah or Mechagodzilla. Tough to say, though. He was pretty scary when he got mad. Relentless is a good way to put it.
I'm not too sure that Kong could be able to take out Gigan with out the thunder charge. Gigan's a walking blender, and the first monster to make GODZILLA bleed. Kong doesn't have ultra tough skin or regenerative abilities like Godzilla does. Megalon also has his napalm bombs, and those things are known to pack a serious punch or at least torch Kong's fur off, but his horn can shoot lightning, so he would be aiding Kong by thunder charging him, regardless if Kong needed it, but I agree that Megalon would go down easily.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by eabaker »

In a movie where Kong fought Gigan, Kong would be the hero/audience sympathy monster, and thus would win, because he'd have the most important power of all: the screenwriter on his side.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by Godzillian »

eabaker wrote:In a movie where Kong fought Gigan, Kong would be the hero/audience sympathy monster, and thus would win, because he'd have the most important power of all: the screenwriter on his side.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by eabaker »

You didn't include Son of Kong in your rankings. Where would that fit?
Doctor Kaiju wrote:I enjoy KKvG, but am not a big fan of the suit. That scene of him running through the houses, though? Good scene. The movie has its moments.
I'm think there are certain angles from which the suit looks cool, but a lot where it looks very shody. However, the movie as a whole I find utterly delightful, and it is easily my second-favorite Kong movie ever (following the original).
I barely remember KKE, I've only seen it once, but the doll stare was not a good thing. But KKL was made twenty years later and has no excuse for that suit, so think KKE is my fifth favorite and King Kong Lives my least favorite Kong.
I haven't seen King Kong Lives since it first came out on VHS, and I've never had the impulse to revisit it.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by pikmintaro »

Not sure if it's ok to comment in threads that haven't been commented on in awhile, but I just want to give my two cents, I love King Kong in this movie, and have no problem with how ridiculous the suit looks, it gives it a unique charm imo.

What I don't like is his arms changing length it just breaks all the immersion for me and I can't stand it, why couldn't they have just stuck with the normal arm size?
I guess I should explain what I mean by "immersion" usually with Godzilla or Ultraman I have no problem with my mind thinking of them as giant or giant monsters, but things like this just ruin it and bring me out of the moment, one example is usually people complain about how the suits are "cheesy and made of rubber" which I usually don't care about or notice EXCEPT for when the fact that the suit is made of rubber is painfully obvious like when the suit sort of "collapses" in on itself, this isn't a problem for many of the movies, but there are certain moments I notice like when Godzilla is collapsed in the 1984 movie, and his neck sort of deflates in on itself, that just ruins it for me, usually the rubber looks good and seems like actual skin though, for example in the 1954 movie it just seems "solid" and I have no problem believing (Well not believing just not thinking about it.) that it's really Godzilla and he's really that huge, but it's those rubbery moments, or Kong's arms getting longer or shorter for no reason that ruins it for me, and pulls me out of the immersion.

As for Godzilla's suit in the movie, I see a lot of people saying it's basically the best Showa suit of all time, and although I do like it (Especially more than the ones from Son of Godzilla or Hedorah) I don't like it anywhere near as much as the ones from Mothra, or Gojira, there's just something about it that seems "off" to me.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by eabaker »

pikmintaro wrote:Not sure if it's ok to comment in threads that haven't been commented on in awhile, but I just want to give my two cents, I love King Kong in this movie, and have no problem with how ridiculous the suit looks, it gives it a unique charm imo.
That's pretty much how I see it. If you're looking for a version of the original RKO character, then Toho's Kong doesn't work at all, but I don't see it as being an attempt to achieve the same effect, and in the context of Honda/Sekizawa/Tsuburaya's strange little comedy, I think the suit is perfect.
What I don't like is his arms changing length it just breaks all the immersion for me and I can't stand it, why couldn't they have just stuck with the normal arm size?
This never bothered me. I understand the practical reasons (to make Kong look as gorilla-like as possible when possible, but to give Hirose as much control as possible when needed), and I don't think it's something the casual viewer would even notice; we fans watch these movies with very discerning eyes.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by pikmintaro »

This never bothered me. I understand the practical reasons (to make Kong look as gorilla-like as possible when possible, but to give Hirose as much control as possible when needed), and I don't think it's something the casual viewer would even notice; we fans watch these movies with very discerning eyes.
I don't know it's just those arms really bug me, most of the things in the movies I never noticed when I was a child (Like the stock footage in Megalon) but the arms annoyed me ever since I was a child, if they had some sort of explanation for it in the movie I wouldn't mind so much, but him going from having one elbow to two elbows at random is just jarring to me, of course it's not a really big deal, but that's pretty much the only thing that irks me about the movie.

As for which I like better (33 or this Kong) honestly they are so completely different that I don't compare them at all, I've only seen the 33 movie, the 05 one (Which is also really different, I liked Kong in that movie, but I really loved the Dinosaurs and giant arthropods.), and KKvsG (And King Kong Escapes) so I don't know anything about the others, and I don't have much interest in seeing them after reading the comments about them here.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by skuzzy-punk-kid »

Seeing that this was the first movie I watched that had both King Kong AND Godzilla (prior to this, I've never seen a King Kong or a Godzilla movie), this one stayed with me to this day (in conjunction with Godzilla vs. Megalon since they were a 2-pack feature VHS). With more mature eyes, I see how sad the suit construction was, but in my eyes this suit is forgivable as this was the incarnation that fought against the God.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by toho_guy01 »

I like him. He's classic. Only thing I don't like him for is the lightning ability.
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Re: Monster Discussion #12: King Kong

Post by three »

toho_guy01 wrote:I like him. He's classic. Only thing I don't like him for is the lightning ability.
really? i love that ability. i know how it came to be and all, but if he didn't have something additional, he'd be just another big kaiju that gets whooped. with that, at least, he's got one of the most unique balancing powers in the Toho universe.
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