Neon Genesis Evangelion

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Post by _JNavs_ »

Manuelito Canelito wrote:You know what's funnier about all the people complaining about Shinji never growing up, not developing a spine etc?

That they somehoe miss the skreeonking development Shinji gets in the first half from where he started




Compare that with how Shinji started

Anyone who ain't able to see that either has terrible attention skills or confirmation bias
Nah what's funnier is people who think a kid doing the job he was commanded to do, only helped out for half a quarter of the season, while the rest he sat out crying until someone had to say "You're the one, you're exactly who we need right now, help us", was someone worth rooting for.

The protagonist doing SOMETHING worthy of being the main character of the series shouldn't be a needle in a haystack. The kid was pathetic, he made it out of that second situation due to Asuka's insistence and pushy behavior, which briefly got him off his ass. The first situation he was groomed and his ego was stroked just to get him to help, don't forget an episode before that he was reluctant to even bother against the angels.

Added in 3 minutes 43 seconds:
Let's not forget in End of Eva, he literally got every main character killed because of his "crippling depression", even when said depression was about the very character he just let get killed.

Added in 11 minutes 14 seconds:
I won't even get into the fact that the little self-loathing, self-pitty'ing creep whacked off to Asuka's corpse in End Of.

Bro is literally one of the worst characters in anime. Which seems to be a pretty popular opinion.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:21 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Post by Manuelito Canelito »

_JNavs_ wrote:
Manuelito Canelito wrote:You know what's funnier about all the people complaining about Shinji never growing up, not developing a spine etc?

That they somehoe miss the skreeonking development Shinji gets in the first half from where he started




Compare that with how Shinji started

Anyone who ain't able to see that either has terrible attention skills or confirmation bias
Nah what's funnier is people who think a kid doing the job he was commanded to do, only helped out for half a quarter of the season, while the rest he sat out crying until someone had to say "You're the one, you're exactly who we need right now, help us", was someone worth rooting for.

The protagonist doing SOMETHING worthy of being the main character of the series shouldn't be a needle in a haystack. The kid was pathetic, he made it out of that second situation due to Asuka's insistence and pushy behavior, which briefly got him off his ass. The first situation he was groomed and his ego was stroked just to get him to help, don't forget an episode before that he was reluctant to even bother against the angels.

Added in 3 minutes 43 seconds:
Let's not forget in End of Eva, he literally got every main character killed because of his "crippling depression", even when said depression was about the very character he just let get killed.
1. A job from which the only gratitude he receives is from his commanding officer and which puts him in the way of fighting against Eldritch Abominations that adult supergeniuses barely can comprehend. Do you really expect him to like that?
2. Shinji's got been kicked down since he was 4. What the skreeonk do you expect from him? A child's that's been neglected and emotionally abused isn't going to stand up and save the world.
3. It is when said protagonist started at rock bottom. If you wanted a super hot headed too cool for school pilot, you should've looked elsewhere
4. Because Asuka's been training for years for that. Shinji has less than half a year. A person dropped into a warzone without prior training won't become as badass as a someone who has been trained after only six months.
5. You call it ego stroking, I call it skreeonking acknowledging that the kid is doing something.
6. No, he was depressed because the only person that actually bothered to try and deeply connect with him turned out to be an Angel and he had to kill him.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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Manuelito Canelito wrote: 1. A job from which the only gratitude he receives is from his commanding officer and which puts him in the way of fighting against Eldritch Abominations that adult supergeniuses barely can comprehend. Do you really expect him to like that?
2. Shinji's got been kicked down since he was 4. What the skreeonk do you expect from him? A child's that's been neglected and emotionally abused isn't going to stand up and save the world.
3. It is when said protagonist started at rock bottom. If you wanted a super hot headed too cool for school pilot, you should've looked elsewhere
4. Because Asuka's been training for years for that. Shinji has less than half a year. A person dropped into a warzone without prior training won't become as badass as a someone who has been trained after only six months.
5. You call it ego stroking, I call it skreeonking acknowledging that the kid is doing something.
6. No, he was depressed because the only person that actually bothered to try and deeply connect with him turned out to be an Angel and he had to kill him.
Regardless of whatever excuses could be made regarding his absolutely atrocious character development, even when surrounded by people that go out of their way to care for him. Regardless of his parental guardian who literally allows him to live with her with 0 issue, regardless of the girl next door archetype who literally wants to bang him AND lives with him. He NEVER goes out of his way to do anything worth while to even attempt to change his life for the better, he enjoys being a textbook "beta", he gets a kick out of draining those around him. He's not headstrong, he's not ambitious, he constantly sounds like he wants nothing more than to kiss everyone's feet. He can't be bothered to focus on the very job he was thrown into, which is his only activity outside of school, mind you. Which makes for a terribly written character for fans to follow.

I didn't know having a spine and growing a pair when faced with conflict could be considered "super hot headed too cool for school".

His mom literally has to pull him out of almost every "Eldritch abomination" rut he gets himself into. What use was he? What was Gendo supposed to praise him for? "Great job Shinji you LCL'd the entire earth because you felt like no one liked you, even though 95% of them tried to get to know you and you decided to turtle everytime. Oh but don't worry about everyone here at Nerv, we all died because you decided after you whacked off on Asuka's comatose body in the hospital, you would just have a total mental shutdown, get mad after everyone who looked after you was killed, watch as your Unit-01 real mother combined with your naked clone mother, then bang that clone of your mom while the size of the Earth, while everyone here on Earth turned into orange Fanta. Great job son."

He knew Kaworu for half an episode, so there was no reason why he'd feel any kind of way for the guy. Plus the dude immediately asked if they could shower together, which of course a creep like Shinji was completely okay with. He knew Misato the entire time, hell she even gave him some action and promised him the whole package if they made it out of the situation alive.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:08 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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_JNavs_ wrote:
Manuelito Canelito wrote: 1. A job from which the only gratitude he receives is from his commanding officer and which puts him in the way of fighting against Eldritch Abominations that adult supergeniuses barely can comprehend. Do you really expect him to like that?
2. Shinji's got been kicked down since he was 4. What the skreeonk do you expect from him? A child's that's been neglected and emotionally abused isn't going to stand up and save the world.
3. It is when said protagonist started at rock bottom. If you wanted a super hot headed too cool for school pilot, you should've looked elsewhere
4. Because Asuka's been training for years for that. Shinji has less than half a year. A person dropped into a warzone without prior training won't become as badass as a someone who has been trained after only six months.
5. You call it ego stroking, I call it skreeonking acknowledging that the kid is doing something.
6. No, he was depressed because the only person that actually bothered to try and deeply connect with him turned out to be an Angel and he had to kill him.
Regardless of whatever excuses could be made regarding his absolutely atrocious character development, even when surrounded by people that go out of their way to care for him. Regardless of his parental guardian who literally allows him to live with her with 0 issue, regardless of the girl next door archetype who literally wants to bang him AND lives with him. He NEVER goes out of his way to do anything worth while to even attempt to change his life for the better, he enjoys being a textbook "beta", he gets a kick out of draining those around him. He's not headstrong, he's not ambitious, he constantly sounds like he wants nothing more than to kiss everyone's feet. He can't be bothered to focus on the very job he was thrown into, which is his only activity outside of school, mind you. Which makes for a terribly written character for fans to follow.

I didn't know having a spine and growing a pair when faced with conflict could be considered "super hot headed too cool for school".

His mom literally has to pull him out of almost every "Eldritch abomination" rut he gets himself into. What use was he? What was Gendo supposed to praise him for? "Great job Shinji you LCL'd the entire earth because you felt like no one liked you, even though 95% of them tried to get to know you and you decided to turtle everytime. Oh but don't worry about everyone here at Nerv, we all died because you decided after you whacked off on Asuka's comatose body in the hospital, you would just have a total mental shutdown, get mad after everyone who looked after you was killed, watch as your Unit-01 real mother combined with your naked clone mother, then bang that clone of your mom while the size of the Earth, while everyone here on Earth turned into orange Fanta. Great job son."

He knew Kaworu for half an episode, so there was no reason why he'd feel any kind of way for the guy. Plus the dude immediately asked if they could shower together, which of course a creep like Shinji was completely okay with. He knew Misato the entire time, hell she even gave him some action and promised him the whole package if they made it out of the situation alive.
People time and time again bring up Shinji's character being a projection of creator Hideaki Anno's depression as a means to justify his particular characterization. Gundam creator Yoshiyuki Tomino also has a history of dealing with depression and the protagonists he creates are always minors getting thrown into battle with zero experience in the matter and yet they grow spines and man up. For example, Amuro Ray, Kamile Bidan, ect. Why can't the same be done for Shinji?
Last edited by LegendZilla on Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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LegendZilla wrote: People time and time again bring up Shinji's character being a projection of creator Hideaki Anno's depression as a means to justify his particular characterization. Gundam creator Yoshiyuki Tomino also has a history of dealing with depression and the protagonists he creates are always minors getting thrown into battle with zero experience in the matter and yet they grow spines and man up. For example, Amuro Ray, Kamile Bidan, ect. Why can't the same be done for Shinji?
Exactly.

Can't just say "Because Shinji isn't that type of character", then what type of character is he? I can't think of a single positive aspect about his character except his ability to apologize every other sentence. That doesn't make for an engaging character.

You know it's bad when Unit-01 gets across more emotion and active productive development than Shinji, the protagonist.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Post by Manuelito Canelito »

Ok guys got it, Shinji's the worst character ever made and he should've grown a pair, skreeonked Asuka, Misato and Rei and be all super cool.

This is why a good chunk of anime protagonists are very similar (optimistic, determined, hotheaded youngsters) You try to break away from the formula and suddenly your protagonist isn't worth following.
Last edited by Manuelito Canelito on Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Post by miguelnuva »

Shinji did grow a pair he just backslides. In episode 19 and in Rebuild 02.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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miguelnuva wrote:Shinji did grow a pair he just backslides. In episode 19 and in Rebuild 02.
Exactly

Against Leliel he even mocked Asuka a lil' bit and liked being the first in the Eva pilots.

If things had gone well, Shinji would've really managed to come out of his shell.

And then the shitstorm blew up
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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Similar to Shin Godzilla, NGE is a fantastic litmus test of reading levels.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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I can’t hate his character because it’s one of the most impressive portrayals of completely debilitating mental illness I’ve encountered.

Added in 9 minutes 10 seconds:
Also, even if they’re in regard to a fictional character in a cartoon, comments with language like “grow a spine” and “man up” are borderline disgusting. I just hope you guys don’t think those things about real people with real illnesses, Jesus.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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Terasawa wrote:I can’t hate his character because it’s one of the most impressive portrayals of completely debilitating mental illness I’ve encountered.

Added in 9 minutes 10 seconds:
Also, even if they’re in regard to a fictional character in a cartoon, comments with language like “grow a spine” and “man up” are borderline disgusting. I just hope you guys don’t think those things about real people with real illnesses, Jesus.
I second this notion. It's so skreeonked up how easily people dehumanize mentally ill folks, fictional or otherwise, but I suppose that's to be expected in the kind of unempathetic asshole culture we live in. :/

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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I never hated Shinji. I just can't find any reason to really get into his character. First time i see him i was excited to see where he was gonna go, but then after a while the other cast members just got me more invested, and he was pretty much tossed to the wayside.

He's a fine character, and i'm sure nobody who hates him actually hates real people with illnesses, but it's not hard to see why some don't like him.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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Terasawa wrote:Also, even if they’re in regard to a fictional character in a cartoon, comments with language like “grow a spine” and “man up” are borderline disgusting. I just hope you guys don’t think those things about real people with real illnesses, Jesus.
This does a good job covering some of this -
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/featur ... ji/.147746
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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tbeasley wrote:
Terasawa wrote:Also, even if they’re in regard to a fictional character in a cartoon, comments with language like “grow a spine” and “man up” are borderline disgusting. I just hope you guys don’t think those things about real people with real illnesses, Jesus.
This does a good job covering some of this -
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/featur ... ji/.147746
Can't lie, i feel like the dude shouldn't have gone on a tangent to the people wearing those T-Shirts. Far as they're concerned, they're just referencing an anime they love.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

I hate this phrase so much. It's on countless bootleg tee-shirts. People will repeat it ad nauseum when you bring Evangelion up. In my opinion, there is no faster way to announce to the room “I fundamentally misunderstand the TV series Neon Genesis Evangelion and maybe have an empathy problem” than to say “Get in the robot, Shinji” out loud.
Yep.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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^
Honestly stuff like that is part of the reason why I generally can't stand "meme culture" or whatever it's called. It creates misconceptions and leads to it being spread like wildfire. In the case of fandom stuff it also leads to profound flanderization of characters and key thematic points and gives people the incentive to not take it seriously or consider what it is trying to convey. It's pathetic, really.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

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I don't think some of you should completely disregard the other side of the coin either though. You can understand how the entire series is based around this mentally ill kid whos entire existence is being questioned daily, while still finding the character an utter waste of a protagonist. One does not necessarily have to lack any reading comprehension levels or fundamentally misunderstand NGE to absolutely despise the Shinji character.

Regardless of whether it applies to the story at a fundamental level or not, that doesn't make him any less of a terribly irritating character who gets everyone who cared about him killed (not the other way around mind you) to some. He does absolutely disgusting acts to others, he refuses to just understand the situation and read the room, he refuses to understand that he is part of a conflict. As i said earlier he seems to gain enjoyment from just killing the mood of whatever situation he's in. He was actually just a dragging rock of death in EoE, someone who i'm sure most of the general audience wanted to either get it together or fall victim to Seele. To that i (as well as countless fans who made the saying iconic) say, he should have got in the got damn robot.

But yes, again we have to be doubled down on the understanding of crippling depression, in case we didn't get it for the 26 episodes prior too, and if we disagree with that we're braindead ooo-shiny object meatheads.

And i never insulted or claimed a lack of knowledge to those who enjoy the character, so i find it odd how my counter-opinion has resulted in these comments above^

____________________________________________________________________________
"Neon Genesis Evangelion is a show about the painful and daunting process of overcoming self-hatred and deep, dark depression. Not just sadness, the kind of thick, rich, seemingly unconquerable depression that results from traumatic abuse and abandonment, the kind that defines you as a person, the kind you'll spend your whole life trying to overcome."
You can understand, and even appreciate the idea, without having it drilled into your head for the entire series. You can be depressed as you possibly can, and still work up some sort of strength for yourself. More so, the millions of viewers who may also be depressed, watching you get tossed around like a rag doll, will likely see you as some pathetic representation of what they go through daily.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:22 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Post by miguelnuva »

Gerdzerl wrote:
Terasawa wrote:I can’t hate his character because it’s one of the most impressive portrayals of completely debilitating mental illness I’ve encountered.

Added in 9 minutes 10 seconds:
Also, even if they’re in regard to a fictional character in a cartoon, comments with language like “grow a spine” and “man up” are borderline disgusting. I just hope you guys don’t think those things about real people with real illnesses, Jesus.
I second this notion. It's so skreeonked up how easily people dehumanize mentally ill folks, fictional or otherwise, but I suppose that's to be expected in the kind of unempathetic asshole culture we live in. :/
I'm pretty sure people here complaining about Shinji wouldn't turn around and attack real people with real illness.

Shinji is not a real person so it's easier to talk bad about him.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Post by Gigantis »

So as someone who wasn't too fond of the original, should i stick around this franchise a bit and watch Rebuild?
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Post by _JNavs_ »

Gigantis wrote:So as someone who wasn't too fond of the original, should i stick around this franchise a bit and watch Rebuild?
I've just binged 1.0-3.0 and i have to say, while 1.0 is a reboot of the first 6 episodes, it does have some different ideas that lead it onto a completely different path in 2.0 and 3.0.

Plus Shinji isn't a complete quack, and does what i'd expect someone who's constantly stepped on, would do.

I was told to look at them as a sequel to the OG show, and it definitely works if you've seen the End of Evangelion film. If you haven't, that's essentially the glue needed to fully appreciate the original show.

But you could just look at the 3 films as a streamlined reboot.

Added in 18 minutes 20 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote:
I'm pretty sure people here complaining about Shinji wouldn't turn around and attack real people with real illness.
This lol (really shouldn't even be a question), plus even depressed people can absolutely hate the stomp-on-me-as-much-as-you-can Shinji Ikari who refuses to grow from the OG.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Since this entire thread has become nothing more than "Shinji was a waste of a protagonist and could've evolved as a character into someone worth rooting for" / "no he's not he's just cripplingly depressed you didn't understand the series"

I'll change the subject by saying this, Rebuild may not be as deep metaphorically, since it's not the same psychological thrilling sci-fi adventure as Neon. But it certainly gains my respect and appreciation for doing something with its characters beyond dying and being turned into human guacamole from the third impact.

Again, i understand it misses most ideologies that were staples of the original, including the religious instrumentality mind of one idea (for now), for a more simplified yet equally ambitious story. However instead of going all Evangelion Scarface like EoE (which was epic and felt like A Space Odyssey mixed with Akira don't get me wrong), or all schizophrenic third impact like the last 2 episodes of Neon, it chooses to actually take the story, and therefore its characters further than they've ever been within their timeline. Which they deserve.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:59 am, edited 11 times in total.
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