General Gamera Thread

[Terasawa]

I’m sure things may be different with you having to use a Japanese ISP but the best looking version of Gammera is on Amazon Prime. The most complete (because the HD transfer has a few shots spliced out) widescreen version was issued on VHS but can be found easily on YouTube. I just don’t know if Kadokawa has those blocked in Japan or not.

Perhaps Arrow will use the latter to fill in the gaps in the former, kind of like the 2014 KKvG master. Again, it's like poetry, see, it's... they rhyme.

My hope is that Arrow can finance a new transfer of whatever elements UCLA has, but failing that, the usage of the Legend Films transfer would be a good alternative.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I’m sure things may be different with you having to use a Japanese ISP but the best looking version of Gammera is on Amazon Prime. The most complete (because the HD transfer has a few shots spliced out) widescreen version was issued on VHS but can be found easily on YouTube. I just don’t know if Kadokawa has those blocked in Japan or not.

I found it on Youtube so I'll watch it on the big screen when I get home.

Edit: “Gammera” was way better.
-Some of the editing between shots and scenes works way better making the film feel less rushed.

-Through changing the dialogue the films characters are better. The reporter no longer comes off as a creep, and the assistant seems more joyful. In the original the reporter has this creepy obsession with the assistant and since the actress has zero enthusiasm it comes off as completely unnerved.

-The dub actors themselves are more emotive and better than the original actors. For the most part, the newly shot scenes actors are good as well. The inserted shots actually mostly replace random white actors in the Japanese version...who clearly weren’t professional actors. As a result you’re basically swapping out random footage with boring generals by non actors, by more interesting footage with real actors.

-A lot of issues I had with the logical consistency in the film suddenly aren’t an issue due to deleting dialogue or inserting new information. For example, the whole line “Gammera is Nigata” is removed, which long story short doesn’t make sense if you understand Japanese geography. Plan Z is implied to be part of some different space program already in the works, not some huge thing pulled together in a matter of days.

-The film originally seemed to blame the soviets, but Gammera makes it clear that it’s Gammera’s fault that the Russian plane was there in the first place, and the film has a for the time pretty optimistic view of the world coming together and working together.

-Toshiro is less of a psycho, and some completely pointless scenes with him are cut down. His dub actor is more synthsizeable. Due to the deletion of the serious belief that Gamera is his pet turtle and other scenes, he comes off as less of a little twerp, and more like a genuine child. They did this by making him seem younger than he is in the original version. He’s still dumb for putting himself in danger but it’s not too bad compared to the original.

-The “Gammera” theme is silly, but works and gives the film a sense of charm.

Overall, much much much better. Not a great classic, but it’s a good monster film and is enjoyable.

[Vakanai]

-snip-

To be clear, I am not against Gamera having another film, I might want another one if it’s good, I am just questioning this logic of “if it’s an American Gamera film it would be good”, or “let’s make an American Gamera film just because”. Honestly, a lot of it feels like Western fans insecurity of wanting an big Budget American remake of a Japanese product because they are either fearful of showing friends the Japanese product and want it to be a household name. I remember prior to and leading up to G14 a lot of people wanted an American Godzilla remake, myself included, so we could have Godzilla be a recognized name and we’d be able to “prove” that our interest in Godzilla wasn’t some “silly low budget Japanese schlock”.

I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I have no insecurity of showing friends a Japanese product (I do have insecurity over having no friends, but that's a different kettle of fish) or of it not being a household name (I do wish for it to be a bigger name, but not for any insecure reason, just the simple recognition of the fact bigger fandom = more stuff, from films to toys to comics to so on, and as said I'm greedy). Nor do I need to prove anything about loving silly low budget Japanese schlock, because I frankly do love this schlock and will let anyone know if conversation turns to such a subject somehow.

Again, not speaking for everyone but - I've honestly liked Hollywood's recent offerings in this genre over the past decade. Pacific Rim, Godzilla, Kong, Rampage, KOTM, all have been an immensely fun experience for me. I've even seen half of those in theaters, talk about wow. And frankly I don't need any other excuse or reason for wanting an American Gamera picture beyond "American giant monster movies look cool" and "I like Gamera." Why does there need to be any other reason beyond enjoyment? I really can't be alone in this, can I?

[Terasawa]

Glad you enjoyed Gammera, LSD. I agree with your comments. One thing you didn't note that I'd like to is that the American version does a good job adding new (stock) music to scenes that had no music in the Japanese version and to the newly-filmed scenes. I think the selection of cues is rather good, with most of them blending rather well with the original Yamauchi score.

Gammera really falters in the direction of the new footage. It's not very interesting to look at and most of the performances are embarrassingly bad. That said, I agree that they're mostly an improvement over the similar scenes from the Japanese version.

[omgitsgodzilla]

I still need to give it a proper watch; I never quite recovered from the disappointment of finding out that the Steve Zacharias who appeared in the American scenes was not, as IMDb once claimed, the writer of Revenge of the Nerds, from whom I took a couple screenwriting classes in college.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Glad you enjoyed Gammera, LSD. I agree with your comments. One thing you didn't note that I'd like to is that the American version does a good job adding new (stock) music to scenes that had no music in the Japanese version and to the newly-filmed scenes. I think the selection of cues is rather good, with most of them blending rather well with the original Yamauchi score.

Gammera really falters in the direction of the new footage. It's not very interesting to look at and most of the performances are embarrassingly bad. That said, I agree that they're mostly an improvement over the similar scenes from the Japanese version.

I forgot about the music, but you’re absolutely right.

In regards to the American scenes, the one bad one is the one that is a really drawn out argument over Gamera being real. It’s fine, but it goes on way too long, and almost becomes a comedy.

Unrelated, but I just finished Gamera vs. Barugon. I think the film has some really good destruction scenes, and Odonera, the main human villain is one of the scummiest kaiju film villains ever. I thought Barugon, while having a bland design, had two of the most unique powers ever. I wish they focused a little more on Gamera though. Feels way more like a “Barugon film”.

Anyways, this might sound strange, but Barugon also also some big obelisk/ancient writing devoted to him. In the first Gamera thing there’s this whole subplot with the tablet depicting Gamera passed down by the Muans. I wonder if originally there was a larger intent to have Gamera and his subsequent foes be more connected. I might watch Gyaos tomorrow. I’m on a Gamera marathon so might as well.

Added in 2 days 43 minutes 24 seconds:
Gamera versus Gyaos was alright. Eichii might be in the running for worst kaiju kid (in Japanese he’s really rude and annoying). The whole subplot with the miners was pointless. Still there was a near destruction scene with Gyaos and some of the moments in the fights are fun.

Gamera versus Viras?...horrid. Can’t tell if I like the original worse then it, but I think the final fight is long enough and entertaining. The kids aren’t annoying by themselves, but what they represent is bad (sanitized children that don’t really have personality). The one unique thing in the film is the brief moment when they play to be sacrificed to save mankind. The amount of stock footage was unacceptable and isn’t used in a unique way. It’s then jarring to see the film have scenes in black and white with zero way to hide it. I’m worried because I remember with the exception of Jiger I know pretty much everything from here on out is the same film.

Also, it’s crazy how many of the Gamera films follow the exact same plot and are just remakes of each other...


As it stands:
Gamera vs. Barugon
Gamera vs. Gyaos
Gammera
Gamera vs Viras/Gamera

[BlankAccount]

Even if no future series ever tops the 90's films, trying to be as well made as those films is something any kaiju film should strive for. Films aren't just products, they are an art form. The Heisei trilogy are flawed but the fact we still talk about them, still re-watch them from time to time is a testament to how you can strike a cord with your viewers to the point where the flaws don't matter to them.

[daveblackeye15]

Glad you enjoyed Gammera, LSD. I agree with your comments. One thing you didn't note that I'd like to is that the American version does a good job adding new (stock) music to scenes that had no music in the Japanese version and to the newly-filmed scenes. I think the selection of cues is rather good, with most of them blending rather well with the original Yamauchi score.

Added in 2 days 43 minutes 24 seconds:
Gamera versus Gyaos was alright. Eichii might be in the running for worst kaiju kid (in Japanese he’s really rude and annoying). The whole subplot with the miners was pointless. Still there was a near destruction scene with Gyaos and some of the moments in the fights are fun.

As it stands:
Gamera vs. Barugon
Gamera vs. Gyaos
Gammera
Gamera vs Viras/Gamera

I misread that and thought you said Itchy was the worst kid. Yeah he's in the running alright but the kid in the first movie is the worst since he's a psycho. Ichi at least one good moment where he defends his grandpa from the angry people.
The kids in Viras have one good moment where they're like 'our two lives don't matter. Attack the ship because the world is at stake!'
Who are the best kids? Hm I think the duo from Jiger are the best. At least Showa wise. Best kid period is easily...oh name escapes me but Gamera the Brave.

[Terasawa]

Gamera versus Viras?... The amount of stock footage was unacceptable and isn’t used in a unique way. It’s then jarring to see the film have scenes in black and white with zero way to hide it.

The initial theatrical version had a very short montage. It was later greatly expanded for the international version (90 minutes vs. the Japanese version's 72 minutes). The video version today is a compromise of about 80 minutes. Obviously this sequence is much less arduous in its original version:



Eiichi is rude but he's also one of the youngest kids in the series. He's also the most credible "monster expert" in the context of the films: he's only brought into the SDF meetings because he encountered both Gamera and Gaos up close. He doesn't solve the crisis himself but it's his observations about the monsters (because of his fascination with them) that keys the adults into what's going on. One thing I especially like about Gamera vs. Gaos is that the solution to stopping Gaos can only be arrived at by the coordination of Eiichi, the adults, and Gamera. They tried to do that with the later films (notably all but Guiron) but I don't think it worked as well in any of those as it did here. It's my favorite of the Showa Gameras in part because I think it best captured what Yuasa wanted: a fantasy world where children, adults, and monsters can work together.

As for the road construction crew, it's true that they're mostly there just to act as a go-between for the SDF and the villagers (and to create drama) but I like it because they're the kind of blue-collar folks that are strangely absent in all the other Showa Gamera movies. It's very reminiscent of the early Toho films, like Rodan, where you had career men who are caught up in the monster action by happenstance. They do provide a key role in the last act, though, as they help set up the ridiculous spinning blood fountain (I love it) and help set up the plan to burn the mountain down.

[daveblackeye15]

^Hm okay that's a pretty fair defense of Gamera vs. Gyaos. A lot of people seem to rank it too high to me. I still think that I dislike Ichi too much and that he's too smart about certain things, only he notices the Gyaos is nocturnal. It certainly can be tricky to do the 'the adults over think stuff while a child notices the too simple obvious.' Maybe if I saw this one a bit younger I'd like it more. Guiron and Jiger get more love from me, aside from Barugon of course. But yeah that post made me at least understand people's appreciation for it more.

[Terasawa]

Funnily enough, I never liked Gaos all that much as a kid. I blame it on those Celebrity Home Entertainment tapes that were always hard to watch, both by fault of the lousy EP recording speed and the compromised telecines. My love for Gamera vs. Gaos didn't come until adulthood.

And while I like Barugon, there's such a disparity between the quality of the monster sequences and the primary drama that it just doesn't feel whole to me. The drama is strangely engrossing, beautifully photographed, and more than competently directed, while the monster stuff just sits there. I applaud the effort but I think Nagata was right to return to the formula that surprisingly made the first film work.

[Spuro]

And while I like Barugon, there's such a disparity between the quality of the monster sequences and the primary drama that it just doesn't feel whole to me. The drama is strangely engrossing, beautifully photographed, and more than competently directed, while the monster stuff just sits there. I applaud the effort but I think Nagata was right to return to the formula that surprisingly made the first film work.

Eh... I don't think the first film ever really worked. Neither Gyaos or most of the showa films for that matter, with the notable exception that was Barugon.

It's the only Showa Gamera film that's actually... well, competent, you know?

[Terasawa]

I meant it worked with audiences at the time. Yuasa noted that kids that saw Barugon were only paying attention to the few monster scenes. That’s why all the other Gamera movies had a child as a central character.

Anyway I disagree about Gaos, as I said earlier in this thread. IMO that’s the strongest of the Showa films.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I'd rank the Gamera films:
1) Revenge of Iris
2) Guardian of the Universe
3) Attack of Legion
4) Gamera vs. Barugon
5) Gamera the Brave
6) Gamera vs. Jiger
7) Gammera the Invincible
8) Gamera vs. Gyaos
9) Gamera vs. Viras
10) Gamera vs. Guiron
11) Gamera vs. Zigra
12) Super Monster

The Heisei trilogy are the best Gamera movies by a million miles. In fact, they're better than just about all of the Godzilla movies. Barugon is hands-down the best Showa movie, though still not on par with the better Showa Godzilla films. Gamera the Brave, I think, is an underrated movie; fun, light entertainment, if nothing groundbreaking. The rest of the Showa Gamera films range from okay to atrocious. I think Jiger is the second best, mainly because the titular kaiju is Gamera's coolest Showa foe. I've only ever seen the English dub of the original film; it's okay, nothing special. Gyaos is perfect for a bad movie night; I'd compare it to Godzilla vs. Megalon in this regard. Viras would be in the same boat, except that godawful stock footage sequence just makes it really damn boring. Guiron and Zigra are absolutely dreadful. Guiron is at least good for some laughs, Zigra is boring on top of being bad, which makes it almost unwatchable. Gamera: Super Monster is probably the worst kaiju movie ever made; not even Gappa is anywhere near as terrible.

[Spuro]

I'd rank the Gamera films:

Swap Barugon with The Brave and Jiger with Gyaos, and you'd have my list too.

Outside of Gamera vs Barugon and (sometimes) Gamera vs Gyaos, I really can't stand the Showa Gamera films. They're... kind of painful to sit through.

I haven't even WATCHED Supermonster and I own the damn movie through a boxset. I'm too afraid to try it.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I'd rank the Gamera films:

Swap Barugon with The Brave and Jiger with Gyaos, and you'd have my list too.

Outside of Gamera vs Barugon and (sometimes) Gamera vs Gyaos, I really can't stand the Showa Gamera films. They're... kind of painful to sit through.

I haven't even WATCHED Supermonster and I own the damn movie through a boxset. I'm too afraid to try it.

Gamera the Brave and Gamera vs. Barugon are pretty interchangeable for me. I agree, the Showa Gamera films are mostly pretty awful. Godzilla vs. Megalon is honestly better than 3/4 of them, and that's a pretty sad statement since I consider that the worst traditional Godzilla film. If you think the other Showa Gamera films are painful, keep letting Super Monster collect dust; it makes Gamera vs. Zigra, Gappa and Yongary look good by comparison. I can say without a shred of doubt that it's the worst kaiju film I've ever seen. In fact, it's the worst Japanese film I've ever seen. In fact, it might be the worst movie I've ever seen...

[Ed Glaser]

The shot-on-video Gamera flying footage in "Super Monster" is amazing. It's like he's in an '80s TV commercial for a car dealership.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Gamera versus Viras?... The amount of stock footage was unacceptable and isn’t used in a unique way. It’s then jarring to see the film have scenes in black and white with zero way to hide it.

The initial theatrical version had a very short montage. It was later greatly expanded for the international version (90 minutes vs. the Japanese version's 72 minutes). The video version today is a compromise of about 80 minutes. Obviously this sequence is much less arduous in its original version:



Eiichi is rude but he's also one of the youngest kids in the series. He's also the most credible "monster expert" in the context of the films: he's only brought into the SDF meetings because he encountered both Gamera and Gaos up close. He doesn't solve the crisis himself but it's his observations about the monsters (because of his fascination with them) that keys the adults into what's going on. One thing I especially like about Gamera vs. Gaos is that the solution to stopping Gaos can only be arrived at by the coordination of Eiichi, the adults, and Gamera. They tried to do that with the later films (notably all but Guiron) but I don't think it worked as well in any of those as it did here. It's my favorite of the Showa Gameras in part because I think it best captured what Yuasa wanted: a fantasy world where children, adults, and monsters can work together.

As for the road construction crew, it's true that they're mostly there just to act as a go-between for the SDF and the villagers (and to create drama) but I like it because they're the kind of blue-collar folks that are strangely absent in all the other Showa Gamera movies. It's very reminiscent of the early Toho films, like Rodan, where you had career men who are caught up in the monster action by happenstance. They do provide a key role in the last act, though, as they help set up the ridiculous spinning blood fountain (I love it) and help set up the plan to burn the mountain down.

Forgot about that the home release montage is longer than the DVD version.

Given some time to think about Eiichi, yeah I think I agree with you. I'll say that thinking it over more, regardless of how I feel overall, the Gamera series always gives some bizarrely artistic and adult moments to their children. Eiichi trying to defend his grandfather is a good example. Another example is the kids realizing the gravity of the situation, and having no resistance to being sacrificed for the greater good of humanity in Gamera vs. Viras.

I watched Guiron yesterday, and I'm not sure if it's better or worse than Viras. They're practically the same film (kids are kidnapped by aliens) but Guiron has the inclusion of Space Gyaos which gives a much better sense of world building. Tomoko (the little sister) is really good in the japanese version, and you get some really touching moments with her rather than her bickering with her brother. My memory is fuzzy, but I think they ruined Tomoko in the English dub, as she comes off as a stereotypical little annoying sister who is a pest to her brother. The scene of her praying for her brother to return, and the reactions of the adults around her is really good. Some of the reactions of the adults are annoying, especially how strict they are, but I realized it's unfortunately accurate, and the film does a good job at showcasing problems with Japanese society.

All of this doesn't forgive the fact that the film is mostly made up of two kids running around a spaceship for an hour and not much really happening. The villains themselves (the space women) are laughably pathetic and offer really zero threat to humanity a whole. They don't do a good enough job at showing more or explaining the society. With Viras, there was the whole "brain control Gamera plot" and Gamera briefly fighting the spaceship was cooler.

Looking forward to Jiger tonight. I always remember thinking Jiger is underrated because I remember the film has more of a real plot and some actual destruction.

[Terasawa]

The shot-on-video Gamera flying footage in "Super Monster" is amazing. It's like he's in an '80s TV commercial for a car dealership.

Lmao that's brilliant. Especially that pan around Gamera as he's in (slow) flight.

All of this doesn't forgive the fact that the film is mostly made up of two kids running around a spaceship for an hour and not much really happening. The villains themselves (the space women) are laughably pathetic and offer really zero threat to humanity a whole. They don't do a good enough job at showing more or explaining the society. With Viras, there was the whole "brain control Gamera plot" and Gamera briefly fighting the spaceship was cooler.

I can't defend Guiron, because it's a pretty bad film, but it's sort of a nostalgic favorite. It was the first complete Gamera film I saw, and believe it or not, the scenes of Tom and Akio poking around the apparently abandoned alien complex really creeped me out. Some of that was the awesome Shunsuke Kikuchi score, some of it may have been the other-worldly international dubbing. For some reason that really bothered me, so this is one Gamera film that I can tie an emotional reaction to after all these years.

[daveblackeye15]

Guiron>Viras. Not even a contest. One uses stock footage horribly while one uses it a lot less sparsely and isn't nearly as annoying. Aliens learning about Gamera. Gamera gets to go into space, the kids aren't as stupidly smarter than the aliens like in Viras. Like the part where they figure they're safe from the aliens only to realize it loops back around. That said the kids in Viras got big points for being ready to sacrifice themselves.
Even the final monsters have a big rift. Nazi squid with spear heard vs...knife headed remote control suriken guard dog.