The Official Star Wars Saga Thread

[_JNavs_]

I'm not even going to argue Kylo's situation (okay maybe i am), as his character is only the best of a bad situation in my eyes.

But he watched 6 planets blow up, each having what i'd assume to be millions to billions of women, children, men, refugees etc., he killed an old man he used to hang with back in the day, he went Hitler on a small village, killed his father, tried to kill his uncle, got his mother "killed" before she became Space Mary Poppins, went on countless tantrums, mentally abused a 19 year old girl until she kissed him, and then died.

But to be fair they made Palpatines granddaughter so OP that she easily physically abused him countless of times, so she's no better than he is in the relationship.

When they kissed in the theater, i shit you not, i verbally said "man what the fuck" and cringed. I have NEVER vocalized my thoughts on a film in a theater before, but sheesh.

[miguelnuva]

Who ever brought someone that Kylo loved to kill him. Kylo is an emotional wreck because he chooses to put himself in those situations. Vader was that way because of what he did had a different result the what he was expecting. What Vader did is not what killed Padme she lost the will to live because Anakin was gone. She chose to die then see what Anakin had become, the choke did not kill her.

Did you even watch Episode VIII? Kylo Ren became the way he is because Luke tried to murder him (or at least contemplated doing so and drew his lightsaber). Padme unknowingly brought Obi-Wan to Mustafar. The misunderstandings are similar, except Luke actually did consider killing Kylo Ren. Also, Vader originally turned to the Dark Side because he was butthurt over not being granted the rank of Master and had some nightmares about Padme dying. Honestly, way weaker motivation for turning evil than believing that your uncle and mentor tried to murder you. And once again, Vader caused Padme's death, if not intentionally. Force choking her killed her emotionally, if not physically.

Oh yes I watched the film that ruined Luke Skywalker to me. Ben Solo turned because he thought his uncle was going to kill him because he was having Dark thoughts already at that point. Luke thought about killing Ben becasue Ben was already thinking about joining Snoke and the current EU implies it was because no one told him he was Vader's grandson. Anakin thought he was going home to his wife to save her from death and rule a newly peace galaxy, Ben wanted to destroy the current peace in the galaxy. Anakin turned to the Dark side because his visions had already came true once with his mother dying and they were happening again with Padme and his child, the only family he had left. He only turned because Palpatine was telling him they could find a way to save her and the Jedi weren't giving him answers. Anakin only cared about being a Master becasue the archives had information only masters could access that might have been able to help him. Trying to save your family after something that has already happened before sounds better then turning becasue you saw you Uncle doing something wired and you didn't even attempt to hear him out. Anakin's actions caused her to lose the will to live, not the choke. The choke was icing on a cake. Had Anakin started attacking Obi-Wan and never chocked Padme she still likely would have lost the will to leave becasue Anakin and Padme are emotionally kids.

I never said Vader never abused Luke and he wasn't trying to murder him in ROTJ. Vader is trying to get Luke to turn so they can kill the Emperor together. Vader is very flawed in how he sees love at that point. As for Luke's hand that was in a duel where both were Luke was also trying to kill him and Vader only does that after Luke strikes at him. Vader used to quickest and safest way to end a fight in Star Wars.
You don't provide any reason for why Vader's view of love is flawed but acceptable, and Kylo Ren's isn't. Both are very damaged men who are mostly evil but still capable of love, despite their best efforts to repress it. Their ability to feel love leads to both giving their life to save Luke/Rey, respectively. In both cases, it would be a stretch to say they were truly redeemed, but at least they did something good at the end of their lives.

Vader is not able to love, Vader's love is how he can use people. He loves Luke but only because he thinks Luke is his. Anakin is the one who loves Luke as a father. More on this later.

quote="miguelnuva"]Kylo hesitated with killing Leia. He doesn't do it but he doesn't choose not to do it either. Kylo later in the same movie where he saves Rey then later tries to kill his Mother again and does everything in his power to kill his Uncle. He also tries to make right see him as her only salvation. Kylo does regret killing Han but he later feels fine about it when he is trying to kill the rest of his family.

So tell me these terrible things that Vader did that make him much worse then Kylo because at best Kylo is no worse or better than Vader.
From my memory, it's pretty clear that Kylo Ren chose not to kill Leia. He takes his hands away from the triggers before the other TIEs move in. He never tries to kill his mother again and he had every right to want Luke dead after Luke (seemingly) tried to murder him. Kylo Ren never feels fine about killing Han. The only member of his family he still wants dead is Luke.

I'll give you that one, I forgot he took his finger off the trigger. He still later tries to kill her on Crait. No He doesn't have a right to want Luke dead, he needs to have a conversation with his Uncle especially after he killed his own Father. Once again, let the past die and Snoke saying there was no longer any conflict in him as well as his power boosts in both TLJ and ROS show he was no longer letting Hans death bother him.

Also, Darth Vader committed more atrocities by a long-shot. Just in the movies, he slaughters all of the younglings in the Jedi temple and he murders numerous subordinates for failure. In the expanded material, he commits all sorts of genocides and kills several of his own students. I'm not arguing that Kylo Ren is good, but Darth Vader is far, far more evil.

Kylo helped kill Billions of people, he basically raped Rey, killed an innocent village on screen, beat Poe, tired to cripple Finn his subordinate, abused Hux another subordinate, killed his Father and tried to kill his Uncle when he had the chance. Kylo is just as bad as Vader neither one is better then the other.

At least with Vader though a better job is done at showing Anakin and Vader are almost like two different people so when Anakin comes back it makes sense. The movies try to tell us Kylo and Ben are two different people as well but they do a bad job at showing it becasue Kylo and Ben act 99% the same way.

Added in 1 minute 18 seconds:

I'm not even going to argue Kylo's situation (okay maybe i am), as his character is only the best of a bad situation in my eyes.

But he watched 6 planets blow up, each having what i'd assume to be millions to billions of women, children, men, refugees etc., he killed an old man he used to hang with back in the day, he went Hitler on a small village, killed his father, tried to kill his uncle, got his mother "killed" before she became Space Mary Poppins, went on countless tantrums, mentally abused a 19 year old girl until she kissed him, and then died.

But to be fair they made Palpatines granddaughter so OP that she easily physically abused him countless of times, so she's no better than he is in the relationship.

When they kissed in the theater, i poop you not, i verbally said "man what the skreeonk" and cringed. I have NEVER vocalized my thoughts on a film in a theater before, but sheesh.

Rey and Kylo are Love the Way you lie by Eminem.

[Spuro]

Rey was only 19?

Holy shit.

[miguelnuva]

Rey was only 19?

Holy poop.

Yes, same as Luke in ANH and Anakin in Aotc. She's 20 in episode ix.

[Spuro]

Yes, same as Luke in ANH and Anakin in Aotc. She's 20 in episode ix.

Luke was only 19???

Holy shit.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

How sad is that Episode IX finished eighth at the global box office for 2019? No other main saga Star Wars film has ever finished lower than fourth place before. Honestly, I didn't expect Episode IX to come close to Avengers: Endgame's box office total, but I did expect it to place second. Instead, the supposed last film in the Skywalker Saga performed worse worldwide than:
-a completely unnecessary remake of a 90s Disney classic (and barely better than ANOTHER one)
-an also completely unnecessary sequel to a polarizing Disney film
-the eighth Spider-Man movie in the last seventeen years
-the least critically successful Marvel film of Phase Three
-a completely unnecessary sequel to a perfect Pixar film trilogy
-and a standalone film about the third different interpretation of a comic book villain in the last eleven years
The most embarrassing part is that Frozen 2 was the only other popular movie that came out anywhere around Episode IX, and while the audience for the two films certainly has some overlap, it really isn't much. With how few good movies came out in December and January, Star Wars should have dominated cinemas, but it got its ass handed to it by the inferior sequel to the most overrated Disney movie of all time. What a pitiful fate for a film franchise that was once the most popular by a long shot. Here's hoping that Disney learns their lesson and starts producing more content like The Mandalorian, and less like the godawful sequel trilogy.

[miguelnuva]

Kathleen Kennedy didn't take the proper time to craft a stroy and then didn't control her workers from having battles with people over the internet. The films suffered as a result.

[Cookson]

This entire trilogy is completely waisted. Should have been something really special.

[eabaker]

Regardless of the utter failure I consider TRoS to be at almost every level, the total waste of time and energy I perceive Solo as, and my frustration with what I see as the missed opportunity that is R1, the overpowering love I have for TLJ alone is enough to justify the entire Disney era to me.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I actually really enjoyed Rogue One. It's the only Disney-era Star Wars film that I'd go so far as to say that I like. Not as much as the Original Trilogy, mind you, but better than the prequels and the sequels. I think Solo had the potential to be great but it ended up feeling pointless because it failed to be the origin story it advertised itself as. Like, cool, now we know how Han met Chewie and got the Falcon, but what did we learn about his character? That said, I still enjoy Solo more than the sequels and two of the three prequels. But I wouldn't call it good, and I only sorta like it.

Sadly, I think Episode VII is the best of the sequels, and it's a thoroughly mediocre and derivative film. I also love how people still won't shut up about Hayden Christensen's bad acting, but just let John Boyega and Oscar Isaac's atrocious performances in this film slide. Even Adam Driver gave his weakest performance here. Then we have Episode VIII, which is either the best Star Wars film since Episode V or the worst since Episode I, depending on who you ask. I generally like Rian Johnson's work, but I was totally let down by this film. Critics loved it for "subverting expectations", but it didn't do so in interesting or creative ways and it wasted its best opportunity for a shocking plot twist: allowing Finn to sacrifice himself to save the Resistance, thereby fulfilling his character arc and, you know, not feeling pointless anymore. I had a more positive reaction to Episode VIII when I first watched it, but even then I despised that terrible scene. And Episode IX was just a trainwreck. It felt like everything bad about the last two films rolled into one volatile mess. The sad thing is that if these film's writers/directors had actually worked together to form a cohesive story arc spanning three films, I think the sequel trilogy could have at least been better than the prequels. And that's a pretty low bar to vault over...

[_JNavs_]

Yeah Rogue One somehow has been my favorite of the Disney films, of course it still didn't hit the highest of highs it could've, but it did... okay?

The characters were ALL better than the sequel characters, yet the whole team was still bland and essentially nameless. (Says alot about the ST characters amirite?). I would've had more belief in Jyn Erso picking up a lightsaber, than i ever could for Rey.

Plus this film decided to do what Star Wars does best, give the good guys a small win, yet show that this war is no where near over, by giving us an even grander loss.

[miguelnuva]

So I just saw her while watching TV and just wanted to say what I hate most about the sequel trilogy was how fans treated Kelly Marie Tran.

Being unable to separate a charcter and a person is just pathetic.

[_JNavs_]

It also sucks when people group the people who despised her character with those who oddly disliked her as a person.

[miguelnuva]

It also sucks when people group the people who despised her character with those who oddly disliked her as a person.

Because for some reason it has to be Black and White with people. Just like if you don't like TLJ your a sexist vocal minority.

[GojiDog]

I'm not mad about the sequel trilogy...I'm just disappointed.

They had the perfect opportunity to do something special and undo what went wrong with the prequels. Instead, we got something that was, in some ways, worse.

The whole experience was just empty and soulless. I blame it largely on the writing and the creative brass that developed the story. The actors, God bless them, they tried. The artisans and animators that worked to create the practical effects, CGI generated images, and sets all did their very best. But when you have a weak plan and a poor framework for a trilogy, that is only going to cover up so much.

[miguelnuva]

Since this is a what have you done for me lately business if this High Republic era and Project Luminous turn out the way it is sounding Disney will be forgiven.

[MandaSaurus]

The long and short of it is that Disney did exactly what we feared - they ruined the new Trilogy. The Mandalorian turned out well because Disney had little direct involvement...

[_JNavs_]

Maybe it's just me, but the High Republic looks poor, conceptually.

Added in 9 minutes 44 seconds:
I won't speak for the entire fanbase, as there's so many splintered groups since the Disney acquisition, but what me and my fellow geek friends have begged for since the prequels, was The Old Republic, the Sith and Jedi at the top of their games, the most hardened timeline as far as we're concerned.






Instead, it seems like they're heading for a softer weird fantastical Warcraft type vibe that i just cannot connect with so far, conceptually at least. But this is where the divide comes into play, those that like the whimsy and fantastical nature of SW may love this, but those of us that specifically enjoyed the war aspects, the power plays, and the "edgier" approach may not.

[miguelnuva]

This for a lack of a better word looks like Disney Star Wars.

[_JNavs_]

This for a lack of a better word looks like Disney Star Wars.

Exactly my thoughts.

Added in 5 minutes 27 seconds:
Someone said "Oh no the Jedi at the peak of their powers will be facing their most powerful enemies yet, Borderlands fodder"




"The Nihil", "Masters of Hyperspace"(?)

if they aren't related to Darth Nihilus, just throw away the license.