DC Cinematic Universe

[Gigantis]

Okay can i just state that the Justice League trailer looks fine but has the stupidest possible music latched onto it? Like seriously, hallelujah?

[_JNavs_]

It comes back around to the idea of Snyder's cut of Justice League being somewhat of a miracle, all these fans had faith in it, and managed to make it a reality.

Plus it harkens back to Snyder's Watchmen film, which is arguably one of the best CBMs.

Added in 18 minutes 41 seconds:

ALSO, the vibes felt similar to Joker, with that raw filter set to max, the crimes feeling more real than we've seen since the TDK films. I'm telling you guys it's definitely a possibility the two crossover. WB would be insane to pass up a chance like this. The timelines match up as well, if we consider The Batman takes place in the 90s.

(Oh and it's interesting they're using the SAME font as The Joker film, for... The Batman.)

Added in 1 minute 34 seconds:
For reference

Maybe, that's why the murder of Bruce's parents wasn't shown in the trailer. Because we already saw it on Joker.

Exactly, that way we don't need to rewatch his parents death play out in his solo film for the thousandth time. Yet it's established in-universe.

Plus idk about you guys, but these 2 look like they could be the same Wayne at different ages. I mean of course Bruce Wayne is going to look like Bruce Wayne, but i'm just saying it seems plausible.

[Chrispy_G]

I think Hallelujah was a perfect pick for the trailer. For starters, yes, the surface level is very much 'hallelujah we are getting the Snyder cut'

But it also feels very much like the lyrics are very Meta from Snyder to the fans/the world. Snyder had a clear "Take" on these characters, and yes, for everyone who loved his vision, there were others that did not. He knows this.

He did his best and delivered his 'music' whether or not people cared for it.

It 'all went wrong' in terms of his personal tragedy and Whedon delivering his version of the film that very few people liked.

In the end, Snyder gets to stand before the world/fandom with HIS version of the film, for better or worse, and the people will get to decide what they think of it....but just the fact that he gets to complete his vision is something to be thankful for even if it ends up being a big giant failure, it will at least be HIS failure.

[Vakanai]

ALSO, the vibes felt similar to Joker, with that raw filter set to max, the crimes feeling more real than we've seen since the TDK films. I'm telling you guys it's definitely a possibility the two crossover. WB would be insane to pass up a chance like this. The timelines match up as well, if we consider The Batman takes place in the 90s.

(Oh and it's interesting they're using the SAME font as The Joker film, for... The Batman.)

Added in 1 minute 34 seconds:
For reference, now as a graphic designer who had quite a few classes in Typography, i can say usually when you're using the same font for a property, it's to keep a sense of continuity. Of course that's a far reach, but just something i've been tossing around.

I really don't think that's going to happen, nor should it. I'd much rather have Phillips and Phoenix develop their own Batman if they return, and for Reeves and Pattinson to make their own Joker, and have neither obligated or tied to fit together. Pattinson's Batman is too much for Phoenix's Joker. Phoenix's Joker isn't Heath Ledger Joker's level mastermind or resourceful. Pattinson's Batman from that trailer would find Phoenix's Joker and beat the ever living tar out of him. Both are raw and dark and gritty, but that doesn't mean that they fit in each other's worlds. You need to really level up Phoenix's Joker to work in The Batman, but if you do that he's just not the same character anymore.

They should ask what should The Batman's Joker be like? And what would be the right take for the JOKER's Batman?

DC is building up a multiverse. I'd rather get two Batmen and two Jokers. Imagine having a disconnected The Batman trilogy and JOKER saga at the same time! Nothing else like that has ever been attempted before. Different versions of the same characters in two successful franchises at the same time. Forget crossovers, I want them to embrace the multiverse. DC would change the game!

[Chrispy_G]

I also would be 100% okay with "The Batman" being an early 00s "period piece" and being in continuity with Joker.

It certainly doesn't NEED to be, I am not expecting or demanding it. I WOULD be okay with it though, I would approve of it and it would be wild.

All evidence in the film implies that Arthur Fleck is only about 30 years old despite Phoenix now being 45. This would only make it that much easier for Phoenix to play a version of that character that is 'aged up' 20-25 years.

I'm cool with any way they want to take this...could you imagine a Joker Trilogy with its own unique Batman for Phoenix to face-off against? A Joker-centric version of that conflict could be incredibly wild and go into some dark places. Maybe Joker "wins" in the end? Joker finally killing Batman but that coming with much more darkness and narrative complexity than the notion of 'the bad guy wins' that you typically see. It could be as compelling and complex as the first Joker film.

Seeing that Joker match-up against THIS Batman could also be just as insane of a face-off.

[Vakanai]

To put it another way, as much as DC could profit having the two crossover, imagine The Batman sequel were Pattinson's Batman goes up against his Joker, and a JOKER sequel where Phoenix's Joker goes up against his Batman, different movies and actors, in the same year. That'd be epic, they would own the year. Each film would make over a billion because everyone would be compelled to see and compare the two. I can't imagine a better strategy than that.

Added in 6 minutes 35 seconds:

I'm cool with any way they want to take this...could you imagine a Joker Trilogy with its own unique Batman for Phoenix to face-off against? A Joker-centric version of that conflict could be incredibly wild and go into some dark places. Maybe Joker "wins" in the end? Joker finally killing Batman but that coming with much more darkness and narrative complexity than the notion of 'the bad guy wins' that you typically see. It could be as compelling and complex as the first Joker film.

Exactly! There's so much potential you can mine with different takes on these characters!

[_JNavs_]

Question is, we already know Batfleck is coming back, which means they have no intentions on dropping him permanently. So we already have an Earth 1 (DCEU) Batman with Leto's Joker, who may even be recast in and of itself. So the confusion at this point is off the charts if they try

1. DCEU Batfleck/DCEU Recast Joker

2. Earth 2 Battinson/ Earth 2 New Joker

3. Earth 3 (?) Joaquin Joker/ Earth 3 New Batman


Might as well keep things tight knit, DCEU Earth 1 BMan/Joker recast and Earth 2 Battinson/JokerPhoenix

Added in 19 minutes 12 seconds:
Not related to the current convo but, I think sometimes we forget that R-Rated Joker made over 1 Billion without $$$ from China.

[Vakanai]

Question is, we already know Batfleck is coming back, which means they have no intentions on dropping him permanently. So we already have an Earth 1 (DCEU) Batman with Leto's Joker, who may even be recast in and of itself. So the confusion at this point is off the charts if they try

1. DCEU Batfleck/DCEU Recast Joker

2. Earth 2 Battinson/ Earth 2 New Joker

3. Earth 3 (?) Joaquin Joker/ Earth 3 New Batman


Might as well keep things tight knit, DCEU Earth 1 BMan/Joker recast and Earth 2 Battinson/JokerPhoenix

Added in 19 minutes 12 seconds:
Not related to the current convo but, I think sometimes we forget that R-Rated Joker made over 1 Billion without $$$ from China.

Currently the prevailing rumor is Batfleck is only coming back for The Flash film for a proper send off. They're already bringing Keaton's Batman back in the Flash as well. So there's going to be at least 3 Batmen anyways. Is a fourth really too much for audiences to handle? I think post Spider-Verse and all the reboots that people are savvy to multiple versions existing these days. Plus it seems like The Batman is not set in the 90s after all but now, so Phoenix's Joker would be like 70 to face off against Pattinson.

[miguelnuva]

WB executive has said the Joker doesn't exist in The Batman universe.

Also Synder cut had a good music choice. Reminded me of the kotm trailers.

[Chrispy_G]

I absolutely think we are at a point where the 'engaged' can absolutely juggle as many different Batman incarnations as they feel like giving us...and the 'un-engaged' are not paying enough attention or care enough for any of it to matter.

I mean...when you are talking about REAL "casuals"...I saw Batman Begins with my mother, and at the end she said "Wow they really set that up nice at the end, to see how it leads to the old movie with Joker"

I remember walking out of The Dark Knight 3 years later, with an enthusiastic audience member behind me saying "man, that was so good, they HAVE to make a second one"

So, the people who care are smart enough to track it all, the people who don't care WON'T care and will just take every film for whatever it is worth individually.

I mean, the audience has been evolving. Films like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings trained audiences to follow multi-film stories with strong continuity. Harry Potter kept audiences tracking for 8 films. The Marvel Universe taught the masses to follow multiple connected franchises and to follow a "universe".

Marvel in film and now DC on the CW have REALLY been hammering home the "multiverse" concept lately. I think that big DC crossover pulled decades old TV shows in with decades old films, and had animated voice actors playing characters in live action, and even had cameos from the film incarnations of some characters....they truly hammered home the "all of the iterations are separate but connected in a multiverse"

So I don't think multiple incarnations will be hard to track. If we get a "trilogy" of dark, slightly comedic dramas that are rated R and called "Joker" meanwhile we get a PG-13 trilogy of Batman blockbuster movies...people should be able to roll with the tide and tell what is what.

[_JNavs_]

I agree, but we'd be talking 3 separate big screen batman continuities. I think for the mainstream that'd be a bit much.

2 ongoing continuities and one-offs could work, but 3? Ehhh.

[Vakanai]

I agree, but we'd be talking 3 separate big screen batman continuities. I think for the mainstream that'd be a bit much.

2 ongoing continuities and one-offs could work, but 3? Ehhh.

I really don't think that there's going to be much from the main DCEU continuity (Batfleck) beyond the Flash, which will also have Keaton's Batman and introduce the multiverse officially. There would only be cameo appearances at best after that. The Batman movie trilogy is going to be the main Batman, with the DCEU and any theoretical Joker sequel being secondary. And I don't think people can't follow 3 continuities.

[miguelnuva]

I doubt Joker is getting a sequel unless they merge him with The Batman.

[Cryptid_Liker]

If we can count Brightburn, there's 4 continuities in the DC cinematic multiverse.

[KManX89]

ALSO, the vibes felt similar to Joker, with that raw filter set to max, the crimes feeling more real than we've seen since the TDK films. I'm telling you guys it's definitely a possibility the two crossover. WB would be insane to pass up a chance like this. The timelines match up as well, if we consider The Batman takes place in the 90s.

(Oh and it's interesting they're using the SAME font as The Joker film, for... The Batman.)

Added in 1 minute 34 seconds:
For reference, now as a graphic designer who had quite a few classes in Typography, i can say usually when you're using the same font for a property, it's to keep a sense of continuity. Of course that's a far reach, but just something i've been tossing around.

Actually, the Joker doesn't exist at all in The Batman's universe, at least according to Armin from ComicBookCast:



Then again, this guy's a known bullshitter and I can't find anything on the internet to back this claim up. A Batman without Joker is like a sandwich without patties, it makes no sense whatsoever.

And people were ripping Sony for having Venom without Spider-Man. If this really is true, then it just further highlights WB's idiotic decision-making. They DID just say the Suicide Squad game is a continuation of the Arkhamverse (meaning no Batman in a game about the Suicide Squad literally hunting down and killing the Justice League members, which isn't far removed from MvCI excluding the X-Men) while Gotham Knights, which sees the Bat Family take up the mantle of Bruce following his "death" isn't, after all.

[Chrispy_G]

If we can count Brightburn, there's 4 continuities in the DC cinematic multiverse.

Isn't Brightburn a Sony movie with no connection to WB/DC?

Added in 12 minutes 33 seconds:
I certainly don't think that Batman HAS to have Joker. Batman has an amazing rogues gallery. Whether Phoenix Joker is incorporated into The Batman, or another Joker, or no Joker at all....I don't see a problem.

Some of the best episodes of Batman: The Animated Series didn't have Joker. People love Batman Returns and there is no Joker in that. Plenty of people love Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. No Joker...and please don't throw that "Well the Joker was in the movies before/after so it was totally a presence that was felt yadda yadda" argument around. Heck....even Batman Forever has its fans and Joker wasn't there.

Batman is fully capable of being interesting and compelling and engaging without HAVING to have a version of Joker involved.

In fact, when you consider that the 'rule' is to almost always have Batman square up against The Joker....finally getting an incarnation where he doesn't could really work.

Marvel dominated the 10s, but I'm much more optimistic about what DC is going to bring in the next decade than what Marvel will be bringing.

We know what Marvel will bring to the table. Entry after entry in the MCU, we know the actors and characters that will be getting sequels, and forming the Avengers, and leading the franchise. No RDJ, no Scarlett Johansson, no Chris Evans, no Stan Lee. They'll continue to try and hit that bare-minimum entertainment for as many as possible mark, and I am sure a few films will soar higher or fall a little lower...and the next big crossover event will come. No way it comes close to Endgame.

Meanwhile, DC might give us any number of stand-alone masterpieces, stand-alone trilogies, multiverse merging crossover events. All playing by their own rules....and when they suck we will be free to ignore them as they won't be intricately woven into the 'tapestry' of the larger continuity.

[KManX89]

If we can count Brightburn, there's 4 continuities in the DC cinematic multiverse.

Isn't Brightburn a Sony movie with no connection to WB/DC?

Added in 12 minutes 33 seconds:
I certainly don't think that Batman HAS to have Joker. Batman has an amazing rogues gallery. Whether Phoenix Joker is incorporated into The Batman, or another Joker, or no Joker at all....I don't see a problem.

Some of the best episodes of Batman: The Animated Series didn't have Joker. People love Batman Returns and there is no Joker in that. Plenty of people love Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. No Joker...and please don't throw that "Well the Joker was in the movies before/after so it was totally a presence that was felt yadda yadda" argument around. Heck....even Batman Forever has its fans and Joker wasn't there.

Batman is fully capable of being interesting and compelling and engaging without HAVING to have a version of Joker involved.

In fact, when you consider that the 'rule' is to almost always have Batman square up against The Joker....finally getting an incarnation where he doesn't could really work.

Marvel dominated the 10s, but I'm much more optimistic about what DC is going to bring in the next decade than what Marvel will be bringing.

We know what Marvel will bring to the table. Entry after entry in the MCU, we know the actors and characters that will be getting sequels, and forming the Avengers, and leading the franchise. No RDJ, no Scarlett Johansson, no Chris Evans, no Stan Lee. They'll continue to try and hit that bare-minimum entertainment for as many as possible mark, and I am sure a few films will soar higher or fall a little lower...and the next big crossover event will come. No way it comes close to Endgame.

Meanwhile, DC might give us any number of stand-alone masterpieces, stand-alone trilogies, multiverse merging crossover events. All playing by their own rules....and when they suck we will be free to ignore them as they won't be intricately woven into the 'tapestry' of the larger continuity.

Joker not being in EVERY single movie/episode=/=Joker not existing at all. There's a huge difference between the two. It'd be like rebooting Superman without Lex or Fantastic Four without Dr. Doom. He's the main and most popular villain and it makes NO sense for the Joker not to exist in any Batman universe. Talk about learning nothing from all the flack Sony got for having Venom without Spider-Man. Then again, this is WB we're talking about, who aren't exactly known for making smart decisions, so it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

Batman Forever sucked BTW.

[Chrispy_G]

Yes, Batman Forever sucked, there are people who enjoyed it.

Venom was a massive hit and Venom 2 is getting made. "all the hate" Sony got for not including Spider-Man didn't really amount to much. The bottom line is what matters. We are only seeing things change at certain studios because films started flopping.

Man of Steel had no Lex Luthor and worked just fine. Getting some films about early Batman, before he ever encounters Joker, can work just as well.

The notion of Joker not existing = ruined/pointless Batman is ridiculous.

[Destoroyah of Worlds]

Phoenix is not the type of actor who is attracted to cinematic universes and franchises.

He will most likely just play the Joker in films directed/written/produced by Todd Phillips.

[Vakanai]

I doubt Joker is getting a sequel unless they merge him with The Batman.

There probably won't be - but Phillips and Phoenix have said they're not against it and they did come up with ideas during shooting on how a sequel could work. After a billion dollars, I wouldn't completely dismiss it. It's merely highly improbable.
But them merging the two I think is impossible.

If we can count Brightburn, there's 4 continuities in the DC cinematic multiverse.

We can't, not DC/WB.