The Paleontology Thread

[Rhedosaurus]

Why did the Alioramids like Qianzhousaurus survive to the bitter end while the Albertosaurs died out in the Campanian? I mean, considering how they were similar, one would think they'd have roughly the same kind of lifestyles and the both branches would have lived to see the bitter end, yet it didn't happen.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Why did the Alioramids like Qianzhousaurus survive to the bitter end while the Albertosaurs died out in the Campanian? I mean, considering how they were similar, one would think they'd have roughly the same kind of lifestyles and the both branches would have lived to see the bitter end, yet it didn't happen.

Albertosaurus was actually Masstrichtian. Just very early instead of pre extinction like we usually think of.

Anyway, completely different niches. Albertosaurus was a tyrannosaur, as slim thicc as it was, so it was an apex predator that would have competed with bigger tyrannosaurs and needed to hunt big prey vs the alioramids who would have been hunting small to medium prey and wouldn't have competed with big tyrannosaurs.

[Rhedosaurus]

I heard that Ceratosaurus supplemented its meat diet with that of fish. What's the evidence of that?

[SoggyNoodles2016]

I heard that Ceratosaurus supplemented its meat diet with that of fish. What's the evidence of that?

Slightly more flexible tail then the rest of the Jurassic theropods and being found in a large number of aquatic locales.

[Rhedosaurus]

I heard that Ceratosaurus supplemented its meat diet with that of fish. What's the evidence of that?

Slightly more flexible tail then the rest of the Jurassic theropods and being found in a large number of aquatic locales.

That's not much. Those could mean that Ceratosaurus was just that good at hunting near waterholes

[SoggyNoodles2016]

I heard that Ceratosaurus supplemented its meat diet with that of fish. What's the evidence of that?

Slightly more flexible tail then the rest of the Jurassic theropods and being found in a large number of aquatic locales.

That's not much. Those could mean that Ceratosaurus was just that good at hunting near waterholes

Tell me about it .

That hypothesis has gotten a lot of shit lately

[Rhedosaurus]

Slightly more flexible tail then the rest of the Jurassic theropods and being found in a large number of aquatic locales.

That's not much. Those could mean that Ceratosaurus was just that good at hunting near waterholes

Tell me about it .

That hypothesis has gotten a lot of poop lately

It's amazing that it was even made in the first place.

What are the cases both for and against Saurophaganax being a large Allosaurus and which side is uh...winning, for the lack of a better word?

[Gawdziller1954]

That's not much. Those could mean that Ceratosaurus was just that good at hunting near waterholes

Tell me about it .

That hypothesis has gotten a lot of poop lately

It's amazing that it was even made in the first place.

What are the cases both for and against Saurophaganax being a large Allosaurus and which side is uh...winning, for the lack of a better word?

Well, there's not that many differences with the fossils of Allosaurus and Saurophagnax. It could just be a large allosaurus specimen. However, those differences that ARE present are possibly indicative of a new taxon. It's currently a stalemate.

[JAGzilla]

So... somehow I hadn't been made aware of this:



Gastornis, formerly known as the top predator of its age, always depicted as slaughtering tiny horses left and right... was actually an herbivore. Maybe an omnivore, at most. What else has science gotten completely backwards?

[Rhedosaurus]

Why didn't tyrannosaurs succeed in establishing themselves in Europe like they did in North America and Asia?

[Gigantis]

So... somehow I hadn't been made aware of this:



Gastornis, formerly known as the top predator of its age, always depicted as slaughtering tiny horses left and right... was actually an herbivore. Maybe an omnivore, at most. What else has science gotten completely backwards?

...MY LIFE IS A LI I TELL YOU.

A LIIIIIIIIIII

But seriously how did we mess up like that?

[SoggyNoodles2016]

I'm surprised yall missed this lol. Makes more sense, even when WWB and stuff was saying it was true, it seemed weird.

To Rhedo: probably can't survive on the island type ecosystems. Maybe there's a few that survived but none we found

[Manuelito Canelito]

Yeah, Gastornis being a herbivore has been known for quite a while

Why didn't tyrannosaurs succeed in establishing themselves in Europe like they did in North America and Asia?

- Lack of the prey the specialized in (sauropods and hadrosaurs seemed to be the most common herbivores in the region)
- Lack of resources (Europe by that era was a bunch of Island, so any tyrannosaurid that came would have to compete with already scarce resources even more than before)
- Just general inaccessibility

[Rhedosaurus]

Yeah, Gastornis being a herbivore has been known for quite a while

Why didn't tyrannosaurs succeed in establishing themselves in Europe like they did in North America and Asia?

- Lack of the prey the specialized in (sauropods and hadrosaurs seemed to be the most common herbivores in the region)
- Lack of resources (Europe by that era was a bunch of Island, so any tyrannosaurid that came would have to compete with already scarce resources even more than before)
- Just general inaccessibility

But considering how tyrannosaurs hunted titanosaurs in both North America(T rex and Alamosaurus) and Asia (Zhuchengtyrannus and Zhuchengtitan, and Tarbosaurus and Opisthocoelicaudia) and hadrosaurs, wouldn't one think that some sort of tyrannosaur would take evolve and hunt them?

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Yeah, Gastornis being a herbivore has been known for quite a while

Why didn't tyrannosaurs succeed in establishing themselves in Europe like they did in North America and Asia?

- Lack of the prey the specialized in (sauropods and hadrosaurs seemed to be the most common herbivores in the region)
- Lack of resources (Europe by that era was a bunch of Island, so any tyrannosaurid that came would have to compete with already scarce resources even more than before)
- Just general inaccessibility

But considering how tyrannosaurs hunted titanosaurs in both North America(T rex and Alamosaurus) and Asia (Zhuchengtyrannus and Zhuchengtitan, and Tarbosaurus and Opisthocoelicaudia) and hadrosaurs, wouldn't one think that some sort of tyrannosaur would take evolve and hunt them?

We dont actually have evidence that tyrannosaurs hunted sauropods. Especially in the case of T. Rex and Alamosaurus, given the size disparity. They probably did but it wasn't ALL of their diet.

They totally hunted hadrosaurs though, so it's more likely it was the lack of resources and inaccessibility

[Rhedosaurus]

Yeah, Gastornis being a herbivore has been known for quite a while



- Lack of the prey the specialized in (sauropods and hadrosaurs seemed to be the most common herbivores in the region)
- Lack of resources (Europe by that era was a bunch of Island, so any tyrannosaurid that came would have to compete with already scarce resources even more than before)
- Just general inaccessibility

But considering how tyrannosaurs hunted titanosaurs in both North America(T rex and Alamosaurus) and Asia (Zhuchengtyrannus and Zhuchengtitan, and Tarbosaurus and Opisthocoelicaudia) and hadrosaurs, wouldn't one think that some sort of tyrannosaur would take evolve and hunt them?

We dont actually have evidence that tyrannosaurs hunted sauropods. Especially in the case of T. Rex and Alamosaurus, given the size disparity. They probably did but it wasn't ALL of their diet.

They totally hunted hadrosaurs though, so it's more likely it was the lack of resources and inaccessibility

The one skeleton of Opisthocoelicaudia had tooth marks that could have only come from Tarbosaurus and we have some evidence that T. rex did hunt Alamosaurus.

[JAGzilla]

There's no reason to think tyrannosaurs wouldn't have hunted sauropods whenever the opportunity presented itself. Taking on a healthy adult might have been a job, but a weak one, or a juvenile? Why not? Multiple tons of meat is multiple tons of meat. Most modern large predators are opportunistic like that. And if nothing else, they almost certainly would have scavenged dead sauropods on a regular basis.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Right, I'm not doubting they DID hunt them, but there's a difference between "hunting a sick one or juvenile every now and then/scavenging while focusing on other food sources" and "hunting them on a consistent basis as the ONLY source of food" which is what Rhedo is implying and what a European tyrannosauride would have to do

[Gawdziller1954]

There's no reason to think tyrannosaurs wouldn't have hunted sauropods whenever the opportunity presented itself. Taking on a healthy adult might have been a job, but a weak one, or a juvenile? Why not? Multiple tons of meat is multiple tons of meat. Most modern large predators are opportunistic like that. And if nothing else, they almost certainly would have scavenged dead sauropods on a regular basis.

Actually, there is for Tyrannosaurus at least: Tyrannosaurus teeth and jaw structure would be terrible for hunting Sauropods. Relatively small gape and large crushing teeth (perfect for crunching ceratopsians and Hadrosaur necks, not so much taking down sauropods) do not preclude taking down such large prey. Tarbosaurus and the carcharodontosaurs (larger gape and slightly better teeth for slashing) would be better at doing the job. Even juvenile and subadult sauropods would give T.rex a run for its money. T.rex just isn't well designed to hunt sauropods because it didn't coexist with them in the vast majority of its range.

Added in 1 minute 24 seconds:

But considering how tyrannosaurs hunted titanosaurs in both North America(T rex and Alamosaurus) and Asia (Zhuchengtyrannus and Zhuchengtitan, and Tarbosaurus and Opisthocoelicaudia) and hadrosaurs, wouldn't one think that some sort of tyrannosaur would take evolve and hunt them?

We dont actually have evidence that tyrannosaurs hunted sauropods. Especially in the case of T. Rex and Alamosaurus, given the size disparity. They probably did but it wasn't ALL of their diet.

They totally hunted hadrosaurs though, so it's more likely it was the lack of resources and inaccessibility

we have some evidence that T. rex did hunt Alamosaurus.

A single tooth from an unidentified Tyrannosaur (not neccesarily T.rex) near some Alamosaur remains does not mean it hunted said titanosaurs. The tooth might not even be assoicated to the sauropod, it could have been swept there by water.

[Rhedosaurus]

There's no reason to think tyrannosaurs wouldn't have hunted sauropods whenever the opportunity presented itself. Taking on a healthy adult might have been a job, but a weak one, or a juvenile? Why not? Multiple tons of meat is multiple tons of meat. Most modern large predators are opportunistic like that. And if nothing else, they almost certainly would have scavenged dead sauropods on a regular basis.

Actually, there is for Tyrannosaurus at least: Tyrannosaurus teeth and jaw structure would be terrible for hunting Sauropods. Relatively small gape and large crushing teeth (perfect for crunching ceratopsians and Hadrosaur necks, not so much taking down sauropods) do not preclude taking down such large prey. Tarbosaurus and the carcharodontosaurs (larger gape and slightly better teeth for slashing) would be better at doing the job. Even juvenile and subadult sauropods would give T.rex a run for its money. T.rex just isn't well designed to hunt sauropods because it didn't coexist with them in the vast majority of its range.

Added in 1 minute 24 seconds:

We dont actually have evidence that tyrannosaurs hunted sauropods. Especially in the case of T. Rex and Alamosaurus, given the size disparity. They probably did but it wasn't ALL of their diet.

They totally hunted hadrosaurs though, so it's more likely it was the lack of resources and inaccessibility

we have some evidence that T. rex did hunt Alamosaurus.

A single tooth from an unidentified Tyrannosaur (not neccesarily T.rex) near some Alamosaur remains does not mean it hunted said titanosaurs. The tooth might not even be assoicated to the sauropod, it could have been swept there by water.

Except that T. rex and Alamosaurus fossils have been found in multiple formations: The McRae and Ojo Alamo Formations in New Mexico, the Javelina Formation in Texas, and the North Horn Formation in Utah. Surely T. rex would have been able to take down a juvenile in a family group attack. T rex had more then enough range to be able to hunt half-grown alamosaurs.