Unpopular Opinion Thread

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I honestly can't think of many American animated movies as well structured, with as effective a blending of plot, theme and characterization as South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut. It's a movie that should be taught in screenwriting classes.

I disagree because you need to have watched at least a few episodes of South Park to really get both the characters and the humor of the movie. Also, I think there are plenty of individual episodes of South Park that are tenfold better than the movie.

The Lion King and Toy Story are peak animated movies as far as I'm concerned. For adult animation, I prefer The Simpsons Movie to the South Park movie; I also think that's one you can enjoy the characters and the humor of without having watched the show.

[Spuro]

I'm saying this as someone who considers the Lion King to not only be their favorite Disney movie, but one of their top five favorite films of all time — but as far as writing goes I think the Lion King stumbles a little at the climax. The main theme about taking responsibility is sort of undermined a bit when the rest of the pride does nothing to help Sinbad against Scar when he confesses that he got his father killed. It's only when Scar admits that it was he who killed Mufasa that the pride acts.

I can't speak for South Park's writing because I've never liked the show and never bothered with the movie.

While we're on the subject, here's an unpopular opinion: I think the best Disney animated film is actually the original Fantasia.

[eabaker]

I honestly can't think of many American animated movies as well structured, with as effective a blending of plot, theme and characterization as South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut. It's a movie that should be taught in screenwriting classes.

I disagree because you need to have watched at least a few episodes of South Park to really get both the characters and the humor of the movie. Also, I think there are plenty of individual episodes of South Park that are tenfold better than the movie.

I don't know that you do need to have, as it introduces the character and setting very economically in its opening sequence; but, having been familiar with the show before seeing the movie, obviously I can't say for sure from personal experience.

It seems off-topic to compare the movie to other episodes of the show, rather than to other animated features. Comparing across media is at best apples and oranges.

Added in 2 minutes 12 seconds:

While we're on the subject, here's an unpopular opinion: I think the best Disney animated film is actually the original Fantasia.

Is that really an unpopular opinion? While it was a box office failure on release, it's come to be regarded as one of Disney's greatest achievements.

For my money, in terms of aesthetic accomplishments, Disney has yet to top - or even to match - Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

[Gigantis]

Honestly, the climax of Lion King really doesn't feel right. Specifically, Simba and Scar's final clash. It would've been so much better if it didn't have that terrible slowmo driving it down.

[Spuro]

Added in 2 minutes 12 seconds:

While we're on the subject, here's an unpopular opinion: I think the best Disney animated film is actually the original Fantasia.

Is that really an unpopular opinion? While it was a box office failure on release, it's come to be regarded as one of Disney's greatest achievements.

In my experience I see most people pick Disney Renaissance films (I love that era too, don't get me wrong), or, more rarely, Pinocchio. I suppose it depends on the circle of individuals though.

[eabaker]

Added in 2 minutes 12 seconds:

While we're on the subject, here's an unpopular opinion: I think the best Disney animated film is actually the original Fantasia.

Is that really an unpopular opinion? While it was a box office failure on release, it's come to be regarded as one of Disney's greatest achievements.

In my experience I see most people pick Disney Renaissance films (I love that era too, don't get me wrong), or, more rarely, Pinocchio. I suppose it depends on the circle of individuals though.

Interesting. I'd actually been thinking recently that Pinocchio doesn't seem to get much love these days. Disney has become so heavily identified with the "Princess" thing over the last 20 years or so, it's felt like there wasn't always room for all of the non-princess classics.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I honestly can't think of many American animated movies as well structured, with as effective a blending of plot, theme and characterization as South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut. It's a movie that should be taught in screenwriting classes.

I disagree because you need to have watched at least a few episodes of South Park to really get both the characters and the humor of the movie. Also, I think there are plenty of individual episodes of South Park that are tenfold better than the movie.

I don't know that you do need to have, as it introduces the character and setting very economically in its opening sequence; but, having been familiar with the show before seeing the movie, obviously I can't say for sure from personal experience.

It seems off-topic to compare the movie to other episodes of the show, rather than to other animated features. Comparing across media is at best apples and oranges.

If I was comparing a movie to an unrelated show, sure. But comparing a movie to its parent show with the exact same creators, voice cast, animation style and sense of humor is NOT off-topic or "apples and oranges". Anyway, I was just making the point that I don't think it's an ideal movie for a screenwriting class for two big reasons:
1) Most scripts need to create new characters and a new setting in order to tell their story, whereas the South Park movie uses pre-established characters and a pre-established setting to tell it's story
2) The movie is a musical, and musical scripts don't tend to make for a very good read; I've read scripts of every genre and I think they're the hardest to get a good idea for on paper

[eabaker]

I disagree because you need to have watched at least a few episodes of South Park to really get both the characters and the humor of the movie. Also, I think there are plenty of individual episodes of South Park that are tenfold better than the movie.

I don't know that you do need to have, as it introduces the character and setting very economically in its opening sequence; but, having been familiar with the show before seeing the movie, obviously I can't say for sure from personal experience.

It seems off-topic to compare the movie to other episodes of the show, rather than to other animated features. Comparing across media is at best apples and oranges.

If I was comparing a movie to an unrelated show, sure. But comparing a movie to its parent show with the exact same creators, voice cast, animation style and sense of humor is NOT off-topic or "apples and oranges". Anyway, I was just making the point that I don't think it's an ideal movie for a screenwriting class for two big reasons:
1) Most scripts need to create new characters and a new setting in order to tell their story, whereas the South Park movie uses pre-established characters and a pre-established setting to tell it's story
2) The movie is a musical, and musical scripts don't tend to make for a very good read; I've read scripts of every genre and I think they're the hardest to get a good idea for on paper

In a conversation about animated features, yes, comparing to an animated television show - even the one on the which the movie is based - is off topic.

And, yes, most scripts need to create new characters and new settings, but (a.) a script can be taught for other elements besides those, and (b.) as I said before, the movie does introduce its characters and setting in a very economical way that would register for an audience unfamiliar with it.

As for the movie being a musical: First, advanced screenwriting classes often teach multiple genres and styles. Second, one doesn't necessarily read the screenplay for every movie discussed in a screenwriting class; while it is ideal to read a variety of scripts, sometimes a finished movie is just watched and analyzed.

Of course, I didn't realize that you were specifically debating the way I chose to phrase my praise of the movie's structure (I missed that you had bolded that sentence), which helps to explain how we've reached this tangent.

[Spuro]

I think the basics of narritive, plot structure, characterization and theme would still remain intact in a musical script. Songs (in a good musical) have to relate to or advance the story in some way.

[eabaker]

I think the basics of narritive, plot structure, characterization and theme would still remain intact in a musical script. Songs (in a good musical) have to relate to or advance the story in some way.

Yup! Which is one of the things Parker is really good at. He always - in his shows and his movies - makes sure that the "set-piece" elements tie in to/advance plot, theme and character.

[gottatalktothefake]

I think pretty much everything made by Anno is incredibly overrated.

[goji89]

I think pretty much everything made by Anno is incredibly overrated.

..........


Pretty much yeah.

[Smuggers]

I think pretty much everything made by Anno is incredibly overrated.

So... Eva and Shin?

[gottatalktothefake]

I think pretty much everything made by Anno is incredibly overrated.

So... Eva and Shin?

Also gunbuster and giant god warrior appears in Tokyo

[Terasawa]

I think they’re overrated in the sense that they’re not the be-all, end-all of their respective genres, but I enjoy both and think they’re very good.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I think they’re overrated in the sense that they’re not the be-all, end-all of their respective genres, but I enjoy both and think they’re very good.

They're overhyped by Otakus who are used to watching Shonen animes like Naruto all day, so the instant they see something that isn't so cliche they think it's the deepest thing ever.

Evangelion might be my favorite anime. It's the perfect length to tell a story, and is fantastic, but I agree with your sentiment that it's not the end all.

I think Anno is a genius, but he's working within a medium and industry overrun by corporatism, deadlines and a bunch of other bullshit things.

[Spuro]

Unpopular Opinion: I've never seen Eva, and I'm not inclined to so much as give it a shot, and I'm usually fairly open-minded.

I've heard too many harsh criticisms about that show from nearly everyone in my friend group, and the only (former) friend who ever actually recommended the show to me is an individual that I do not have fond memories of. Watching Eva would be like reopening an old wound, and considering it's spotty reputation I'm not about to make a gamble on putting myself through that in the hopes that maybe I might go against the grain and like the show.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

Unpopular Opinion: I've never seen Eva, and I'm not inclined to so much as give it a shot, and I'm usually fairly open-minded.

I've heard too many harsh criticisms about that show from nearly everyone in my friend group, and the only (former) friend who ever actually recommended the show to me is an individual that I do not have fond memories of. Watching Eva would be like reopening an old wound, and considering it's spotty reputation I'm not about to make a gamble on putting myself through that in the hopes that maybe I might go against the grain and like the show.

I've mostly heard bad things about Eva as well. I have two anime-loving friends who I tend to go to for recommendations. One of them says that Eva is the worst anime he's ever seen (and he's watched dozens). The other one thinks it's pretty good, but he also thinks Attack on Titan is the worst anime ever, and I love that show, so I don't trust his opinions as much.

[Manuelito Canelito]

And as long as we're discussing animated masterpieces... while not *American* per-say, Cartoon Saloon's three feature films are magnificent and very underrepresented.

Agree so much with this

Song of the Sea it's still my favourite animated film, although I unfortunately still haven't watched The Breadwinner.

And tbh, the only Disney flicks I would put in my Top 10 Animated Films would be The Beauty and The Beast and Aladdin (although I love Lilo & Stitch and The Lion King for nostalgia factors)

As for Pixar, Wall-E and Inside Out are my personal favourites

[kingkevzilla88]

Morons are once again, beating on a dead man to show how progressive and woke they are. There is no argument on this, racism is bad. But a lot of people seen to think that it's something people are born with.

To my main grip here, people will use the world of H.P Lovecraft and at the same time go out of their way to vilify him as a complete monster. Yes, it is true, he was racist and xenophobic. There is a reason for why he was the way he was.

The way Lovecraft was the way he was because of his mother. She abused him as child, she beat him, locked him up in their attic for months, told him that if he went outside he would die, she forced water dresses and the other horrible things. It's amazing the man survived his childhood. So he was forced into thinking that way by her.

To excuse him, for thinking that way. But its clear that after she died and he got away from her influence, that he slowly started to change.

Also for the man being an anti-semite, he married a Jewish woman! And towards the end of his life, he changed. He realised that his old views were wrong, but before write anything to show that, he die of stomach cancer.

Lovecraft is great example of how people can change. People who use his work and do this need to read up on the man.