New kaiju game from Matt Frank + Simon Strange [Archive]

[Tormentor]

If fans are committed then it could happen, very true. But honestly, who's truly committed? If someone slapped the information dealing with what's needed to make a 3D Godzilla Game onto Matt's blog on Deivantart, how many are truly going to stick around after that? How many posts do you expect to see and say: "Oh, well, when I get a job I'll donate some money." or "Oh, I would love to donate into the pool if I had some money to spare/give.". Or the famous " I don't have any money right now, but I'll have some later and contribute." and they never do it. Of course, those pardons aren't without reason I'm sure. It's either the person is tight on money, or they simply don't have it and expect other committed fans to do all the effort. Or they simply just don't want to contribute any precious money and hope that everything works out. Or they have better things to spend their money on.

You are, of course, aware this happens to virtually every fan-sponsored fundraiser, right? But, many still work. You act as though fan campaigns never get anyone anywhere, when, in fact, they do. Star Trek was in the same situation back in the 60's. The fans contributed, and got the show back on the air, and look what it is today. You're basically stating something that happens in EVERY fan mounted campaign, ever. You also ignore the fact that it is possible for these guys to find an investor, which would play a big factor, even if they only put up a third of the budget.

Yes I'm aware, many that you've seen probably worked, but I've seen many fell although strangely enough each case only becomes worse and worse. Yes, Star Trek, a franchise created mostly within the U.S, and was a growing fanbase with their act together. And from being focused and committed, achieved what they set out to do in the 60's. Pretty cool I'll admit. But now, fast forward to present day. Godzilla, a franchise created within Japan, in which has a steadily growing fanbase that still hasn't completely reached that finish line of maturity yet. We're somewhat focused, and can mostly be committed to something.

I never ignored the fact, I stated my view on that little detail back within my previous posts. You just ignored them or overlooked them, other-wise you wouldn't have posted what you said now in this post.

[Blackout286]

If fans are committed then it could happen, very true. But honestly, who's truly committed? If someone slapped the information dealing with what's needed to make a 3D Godzilla Game onto Matt's blog on Deivantart, how many are truly going to stick around after that? How many posts do you expect to see and say: "Oh, well, when I get a job I'll donate some money." or "Oh, I would love to donate into the pool if I had some money to spare/give.". Or the famous " I don't have any money right now, but I'll have some later and contribute." and they never do it. Of course, those pardons aren't without reason I'm sure. It's either the person is tight on money, or they simply don't have it and expect other committed fans to do all the effort. Or they simply just don't want to contribute any precious money and hope that everything works out. Or they have better things to spend their money on.

The great thing about today's world is - we don't care about the answer to that question. Whether or not we actually raise the money is not our present concern. The question in front of us is this:

What amount should we ask for, and what sort of game do we promise, if that amount is raised?

Once we have answers to those questions, whether or not we _actually_ get the money is fairly academic.

For example, I might be able to broker a deal with TOHO for rights to Godzilla. Normally they don't sell rights for individual games, and they require rights payment up front. But I could very possibly broker a deal with them for a specific Kickstarter campaign - saying "If this campaign raises its goal, we will give you X dollars for the rights to Godzilla Kaiju" all of those sort of sideline conditions and riders need to be worked out in advance - that is the stage we are at.

So please, let's keep our discussion on point: How much might we expect to raise, and what sort of game would fans expect for that amount? Have we given any serious thought to a mobile game? Are we sure we want a head-to-head fighting game, rather than a city-smasher? Do we want a story mode / single player? Let's raise our opinions, and I'll figure rough dollar amounts for those suggestions, and then we can try to make a best-guess for what game we'd like to realistically shoot for.

No offense but, that's why it's called donating money. People know the risk when they purposely donate their money to things like this. If the game goes through, then it's just wonderful news but if it doesn't atleast we know that they tried to make one. Plus people can always just re-earn their money by doing their job, it's only a measly $50 more or less which you can earn back in about a days work.(depending on the hours)

Actually, with Kickstarter no money changes hands until the entire amount is pledged. That's one of the beauties of the system.

Toho is as tough as nails to convince and work it, that X amount of money better be pleasing to them lol. Beyond that Mr. Strange, ever since the end of G:U, mostly everyone here and on some other sites wants another head to head fighting game. A single player mode is another want, but its not more important that the roster or actual combat system. So long as its better than what G:U's Story Mode was and the story is fresh (Please, no more Alien Invasions), then we're good.

Most aren't interested within a moblie phone game, most fans want a console game. I'm sure you've mostly known that though.

How much can we expect to raise? A million is a long stetch, maybe 3/4's of it if we're lucky. Only how a million can be asured is if we have help from higher places,and if the fanbase can actually contribute money. And maybe G-Fest, like Tormentor said, it could be our best bet.
Only how IDW might want to help is if the game is centered around one of their Godzilla series. Like Gangsters and Golithas, or Kingdom of Monsters.

Mr. Strange, this may seem...Off-putting. But let's say the money is all gathered. We've reached one million. How would a developer be picked out to make the game? Is there some kind of process in selecting? Or is it who's ever interested?

Edit:

Mr Strange, I think a little bit over one million might be needed. As you know, the fanbase enjoys a large roster. G:U held 23 monsters, the aim will obviously be higher. Probably in the mid or high 30's

[Hotrod93]

Another view or views we have to look at is the following:
-How do we make it appeal to both American and Japanese Markets?
-How do we get the word out and advertise?
-What pushes people away from the idea of playing the game?
-What can bring people in, keep them, or bring them back?
-Who do we get to help us?
-How do we keep it from "Looking" or being "Generic"?
-How do we get it to sale?
-Whats the "Point" of buying the game?
-How and where do we sell it?
(If)-What monsters will the fans and general audience want and what will make them buy the game.
(If)-How do we make it look nice that pleases the eye of both fans and general audience.
(If)-What updates to monster could we make that will give certain monsters and updated apperance, yet still have it approved by Toho and the fans.


Of course, those are only a few of questions that very few of the people in this thread can truly answer. The focus isnt just to make the game for the fans, but to also make it sell and have it be successful. If we want this to become something and be taken seriously, we have to show companies that the game will sell and that it will make money.

It's ok that we are excited by this and it's ok to want this to be the "Best game ever", but we also have to think about real problems at hand and are sure to come. We cant be excited one day and dead the next, if we want this game to happen one way or another we better put as much work as we can into it.

Right Now lets all just say the game "IDEA" is pretty much:
-Street Fighter: Godzilla Edition or Street Fighter: Original Kaiju Edition
-It is a 2.5D style game (Blazblue style, if you will)

At this point its nothing more than an Idea and nothing more, and as I said above if we want it we have to be serious and help. If you cant donate help contact people and ask questions, Help get the word out. Show the support.

[hammysammy59]

Here are my answers:

Question 1: Which set of monsters?
Option 3. All-original Kaiju. (No licensing of monsters = $ saved!)

We all love famous movie monsters, but what really matters is that the game is compellingly fun and well-made. Every penny possible should go into the development of gameplay. Using original monsters also means you don't have to worry about being true to established characters. You can build original monsters to perfectly suit your gameplay, instead of trying to smash square character pegs through round gameplay holes. It's also a fun chance for your team to make affectionate parodies and tributes to a variety of famous monsters.

Question 2: What technology?
Option 1. Online fighting with fully 3D monsters.

It's just the most fun way to play a game about giant, city-smashing titans. I'm worried a 2D game would just end up being Street Fighter with monsters or Rampage with better graphics... if we could get something like a better version of the old King of the Monsters arcade/Neo-Geo game, I'd be cool with 2D. The other options mention turn-based "asynchronous" fighting. At the risk of sounding dumb, could someone explain what that would mean? Are we talking turn-based, RPG-style battling?

Question 3: What platform?
Option 1: Consoles.

Now obviously I'd rather have this playable on a home console, for a lot of reasons. Ease of use, gamepad compatibility, *cough*Acheivements*, etc. But on the other hand, it seems like licensing and manufacturing a game for the big console companies would be pretty cost-prohibitive. The world of computer gaming still seems like the wild west by comparison, where it's pretty easy for even small companies to get their game out there. So in a dream world I'd say consoles, but just for the sake of actually getting the game, I'd be a-OK with a computer game.

And I know I've said it a lot in other kaiju game threads, but a kaiju game that plays like/borrows game mechanics from pro wrestling games would be insanely fun, as well as truer to the film genre. Giant monsters are massive, lumbering creatures that brawl and grapple, not speedy, combo-slinging Chun-Lis or SubZeros.

Sadly I'm not an investor rolling in dough, but rather just a guy who loves monsters. I could throw $60 at this.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but for me wanting a 3D game doesn't necessarily mean I'm expecting super-duper awesome graphics. I don't want the 3D for photo-realism, I want it for the range of movement and sense of scale. If this was graphically on par with a decent PS2-era game, I'd be A-OK with that. Great art design can go a long way to making a game look better than its technical limitations might have allowed, and with Matt Frank on board, the great art is already there.

[Zilla103192]

I say make a downloadable title (PSN, Live, Wiiware) that is a simple 2D based real time fighting game using all original monsters.

That way you save money on copyrights, graphics systems, and releasing it as a Download game would save you money over having to release it on disc.

I would LOVE a new Godzilla OR Gamera game, but honestly, are we REALLY going to believe that we are going to raise $1,000,000? I love godzilla, but I just don't see that happening.

I say set a plan, and stick with it.

I also REALLY like that donation perk idea. I would hand Matt and Simon $500 PERSONALLY if it meant I got to design a character.

[hammysammy59]

I also REALLY like that donation perk idea. I would hand Matt and Simon $500 PERSONALLY if it meant I got to design a character.

I can't/shouldn't afford it, but yeah, that is awesome and super-tempting.

[Spuro]

I can (and will) donate 500 dollars by the end of the summer if it means getting ol Talizan in the game.

[Destroyer]

Creating a kaiju isn't really that important to me, I just want to play as the monsters. (And the Gamera ones.) $30 for a free copy of the game and you're able to make some decisions? Count me in.

[ゴジラ]

I say make a downloadable title (PSN, Live, Wiiware) that is a simple 2D based real time fighting game using all original monsters.

That way you save money on copyrights, graphics systems, and releasing it as a Download game would save you money over having to release it on disc.

I would LOVE a new Godzilla OR Gamera game, but honestly, are we REALLY going to believe that we are going to raise $1,000,000? I love godzilla, but I just don't see that happening.

I say set a plan, and stick with it.

I also REALLY like that donation perk idea. I would hand Matt and Simon $500 PERSONALLY if it meant I got to design a character.

That's the thing, 1 million bones sounds like a stretch. Of course its NOT impossible, but yeah, if we are to get that amount. We'll need help from high places and everywhere else. Someone has already posted all of this on the IDW boards, sadly its been nothing but views and two votes. No actual posts.

Another view or views we have to look at is the following:
-How do we make it appeal to both American and Japanese Markets?
-How do we get the word out and advertise?
-What pushes people away from the idea of playing the game?
-What can bring people in, keep them, or bring them back?
-Who do we get to help us?
-How do we keep it from "Looking" or being "Generic"?
-How do we get it to sale?
-Whats the "Point" of buying the game?
-How and where do we sell it?
(If)-What monsters will the fans and general audience want and what will make them buy the game.
(If)-How do we make it look nice that pleases the eye of both fans and general audience.
(If)-What updates to monster could we make that will give certain monsters and updated apperance, yet still have it approved by Toho and the fans.


Of course, those are only a few of questions that very few of the people in this thread can truly answer. The focus isnt just to make the game for the fans, but to also make it sell and have it be successful. If we want this to become something and be taken seriously, we have to show companies that the game will sell and that it will make money.

It's ok that we are excited by this and it's ok to want this to be the "Best game ever", but we also have to think about real problems at hand and are sure to come. We cant be excited one day and dead the next, if we want this game to happen one way or another we better put as much work as we can into it.

Right Now lets all just say the game "IDEA" is pretty much:
-Street Fighter: Godzilla Edition or Street Fighter: Original Kaiju Edition
-It is a 2.5D style game (Blazblue style, if you will)

At this point its nothing more than an Idea and nothing more, and as I said above if we want it we have to be serious and help. If you cant donate help contact people and ask questions, Help get the word out. Show the support.

Hmm...
-How do we make it appeal to both American and Japanese Markets?
Mostly game content, visuals, and naturally just being different from previous incarnations while being more is pretty much the only way.

-How do we get the word out and advertise?

G-Fest, G-Fan, and possibly IDW (If they decide to help). I would say comic-conventions, but that's more 50/50. Oh, and any screening of a Godzilla/kaiju film at a location.

-What pushes people away from the idea of playing the game?
What pushes them away is if it doesn't look fun to play, and if the gameplay seems/is shallow. From what I've noticed over the years, it has to be action-packed, it has to hold some form of different aspects of gameplay that appeals and catches their attention. And of course, it has to look good. If it has none of these things, then it pushes people away.

-What can bring people in, keep them, or bring them back?
Naturally, content and long replay value with some hints of DLC here and there gets the job done. At least in this day and age.


-Who do we get to help us?
Well, one is our own G-community and other supports, if you mean by developers, we'll, we could find a developer who's interested. If not that, then renting a studio?

-How do we keep it from "Looking" or being "Generic"?
Looking wise, we could use cel shading. Cel shading can look very stylized and can give a Godzilla/kaiju game a very unique presentation. As for the being part. Well, we need more content, better gameplay, and adding new aspects to keep things from feeling like "been there, done that". And if the game has a story mode, yeah, no more Alien Invasions, gotta try something else. Red Bamboo?


-How do we get it to sale?
Lots of ads, decent marketing, and word of the mouth. But it should mostly be focused on G fans or sci-fi creature fans. And once more, look appealing through different aspects of gameplay and content that can be invested into the product.

-Whats the "Point" of buying the game?
Naturally when it comes to Monster Games, the point is to enjoy a monstrous experience by being a powerful monster and dominating the battle field against other creatures within intense or enjoyable battles. Be it with friends or by yourself.

-How and where do we sell it?
Hmm...Don't we need a game publisher? I'm confused about this part.

(If)-What monsters will the fans and general audience want and what will make them buy the game.

This is a decently important part of the game that will determine if it will sell well. Like any other fighter, some people will only buy if X character is playable. It's a fact that you can't please everyone, some people want to keep the roster of the old Godzilla console games but with new additions, others want to have a completely new roster.

It's a conundrum.

I think we should have a completely new roster, but while keeping a few iconic monsters like Anguirus, Rodan, Ghidorah and Mothra. Beyond that, we need a new Godzilla mascot. Godzilla 2000 was acceptable within the previous G game series. But now, he should be replaced with another incarnation that will sell "Hey, this one is different.". I suggest either GMK Godzilla or GFW Godzilla. We could have a poll about this.

(If)-How do we make it look nice that pleases the eye of both fans and general audience.

Can't please everyone, cel shading would be easier and still pleasing. If Broderland 2 and the Darkness 2 can make everything look good and pleasing to both fans and general audience, I think we'll be better off with this. It'll be a unique art style direction for a Godzilla game.

(If)-What updates to monster could we make that will give certain monsters and updated apperance, yet still have it approved by Toho and the fans.

That's...A tough one. Can't really comment on that one. Gigan was updated to Final Wars because its another incarnation and was the newest. We could update Rodan, Anguirus, Mothra and Godzilla, I'm sure Toho might approve that just fine. But some fans will obviously want different depending on the incarnation that might be selected for them. So I suggest a poll. Which ever incarnation wins, give notice to Toho for approval.

[Godzillabrawler]

I haven't posted since the first page, but this is becoming a serious topic, so I'll say what I feel like saying.

Toho wants money. And sadly, such a project as this doesn't seem to have the excessive financial strength unless a miracle ocurred and Legendary and IDW picthed in. It might even take more than that. We fans might help a ton, but it would take a miracle for us fans to do it by ourselves.

The Godamera thing (making mimics and/or hybrids of existing monsters) seems plausible.

Another view or views we have to look at is the following:
(...)
-How do we get the word out and advertise?
(...)

If we did indeed get a purely Godzilla game, I feel advertising would be needed. I NEVER saw any advertisements on TV for Godzilla Unleashed. If the money was there, I'd seriously recommend getting the game out there on TV. Make sure the average person sees the game and says, "Wow! That Godzilla game looks cool! I want to get it!"

[miguelnuva]

(...)

If we did indeed get a purely Godzilla game, I feel advertising would be needed. I NEVER saw any advertisements on TV for Godzilla Unleashed. If the money was there, I'd seriously recommend getting the game out there on TV. Make sure the average person sees the game and says, "Wow! That Godzilla game looks cool! I want to get it!"[/quote]

It had a TV commercial but it wasn't that good.

[Godzillabrawler]

(...)

If we did indeed get a purely Godzilla game, I feel advertising would be needed. I NEVER saw any advertisements on TV for Godzilla Unleashed. If the money was there, I'd seriously recommend getting the game out there on TV. Make sure the average person sees the game and says, "Wow! That Godzilla game looks cool! I want to get it!"

It had a TV commercial but it wasn't that good.

Yes, but I never actually saw it on TV. Some games (Battlefield, COD MW3, etc.) get advertisements and I saw them while Spike still had UFC Unleashed. Godzilla Unleashed NEVER appeared on any channels I watched. And no, GU's commercial wasn't that great.

[Blackout286]

Actually I've seen the commercial three times on TV before, it was mostly on cartoon network. The TV ad was decently good, though I loved it when the Asian girl did the Orga spinning toss at the end. That was priceless! xD

But back on topic!

I guess one million can be reached, but yeah we'll need help from high places.

[Mr. Strange]

I have some replies to several points - I'm not quoting them individually, because I want to address everybody, not just one specific person who's raised the point recently.

1 - Who develops the game?

Well, that would probably be me, and a team I would create. I would bring in a few ex-Pipeworks folk I know for certain elements, and I would very possibly look to license some Pipeworks engine code, if we are looking for a console game.

2 - How could we make money on this?

That's old school thinking - we DON'T NEED TO SELL EVEN A SINGLE COPY OF THE GAME. That $1M development price tag means we have paid for every thing up front. When a publisher pays a developer $1M, they expect that back as a portion of sales. But by self-funding the thing, we could release it for $5, or even as a free game on PCs. The community has already paid for it!

Now, I'm not saying that everyone should get the game for free - but we should at least consider non-traditional models like that. Imagine a free game on XBLA / PSN, with $2 monster downloads for everyone beyond the basic roster, with more monsters being added all the time. Wouldn't that be pretty cool? I think it would.

We could also integrate social / mobile devices into the mix. Say each karma point you earn at TohoKingdom earns you 1 credit in the game, and with 100 credits you get to download a monster free. Or we let people earn download credits via mobile phone apps which let them preview all the stats for the monsters in game, including new monsters in development. We have a LOT of options and flexibility here. Let's not think than $60 for a console game is the only model in town any more - it's not. At all.

3 - Everyone wants another 3D console fighting game.

This might be true, but I suspect that a lot of this sentiment comes from "I've seen that work" whereas anything else would be new (new! scary!) But recognize that console ownership is in decline, and dropping very VERY fast. I was at a conference a week ago where someone stood up to ask a question, and began by saying "I'm a developer working on a new XBLA / PSN game..." and the presenter panel cut them off right there by asking "Why would you do that? That market is totally dead!"
(Note that, as per #2, we're not looking to "make money" off the game, so we're in a very different situation.)

I wonder - how many people at TohoKingdom have a 360? A PS3? How many have a PC? How many have a smartphone? If we want big investments, to make the game great, we might need to stretch our expectations a bit.

4 - TOHO will never let it happen/ they are greedy / etc.

TOHO isn't stupid. They don't want to license their IP for $10,000 and then have someone make $40,000,000 off it, or (worse) have someone run their franchise into the ground. But if the game is not being produced for a profit - then they won't get taken advantage of in that way. And I have many years of good relations with TOHO to draw upon, so I believe I can establish a positive, trusting relationship.

Is it possible that TOHO could screw things up? Yes, of course. And a meteorite could strike my house and blow up my computer. But let's focus on our part of this package, and I'll work on developing a relationship with TOHO that will be beneficial to everyone.

[ゴジラ]

I wonder - how many people at TohoKingdom have a 360? A PS3? How many have a PC? How many have a smartphone? If we want big investments, to make the game great, we might need to stretch our expectations a bit.

Well, I can't speak for everyone. But if the mods would allow it, a poll topic could be made to see how many have this or that since it would be helping getting a better grasp on things. At least here. Then on other sites the same thing could be done.

Though just to put myself out there, I do not have a smartphone owo. Never really bothered to buy one to be honest.

Alright then Strange, you work on TOHO, us fans will work on G-Fan, G-Fest, and well, mostly everyone else. Matt, not sure if your reading or not, but can you see if you could do anything with IDW?

But the console decline thing, do you suggest a downloadable game like DC Universe Online, or Street Fighters III Online?

[Mr. Strange]

But the console decline thing, do you suggest a downloadable game like DC Universe Online, or Street Fighters III Online?

Making it a PC game poses some problem - what controllers do we support? But it would dramatically lower costs.

Just to throw a number out there - every time you add DLC to a game, it costs $50,000 for Microsoft to review it. Sony is similar. A PC game is totally open - we can do anything, charge anything - it's totally up to us. I'm working on putting a game on Steam right now, so by the time we get around to this project I'll have an inside perspective on that process, as well.

[ゴジラ]

Hmm...I was thinking that the possibility of a PSN/XBL downloadable game could work. A PC Godzilla game could very well work, though I'm not in PC gaming at all, I'll still support and donate bills to make it all happen. My friends are into it, so I'll make it happen for them.

Firstly I would like to ask this: If a game is made with original monsters and it is quite successful, wouldn't that give us better chance of making the Godzilla game of our dreams next?

Here's my opinion. We have a 2D fighting game featuring original kaiju with online capabilities for the consoles.
The cost for the 2D engine, making it for consoles, and the online play would be about $420,000 using Mr. Strange's numbers.
Then we add in the monsters. You can get 40 kaiju for about $20,000. For the environments...let's just say 15 of those. That's another $7,500.
We also would obviously need to allocate some funds for the audio part of the game as well.
So we're looking at a total of about $500,000. I think that is totally do-able. It may even cost less than that, who knows.

And if this does well then maybe some ears will be perked and we'll have a chance to make that Godzilla game that we've all been longing for.

Couldn't the fans make up the audio part? (Music-wise) It could be another contributing form that could be done right?

[Blackout286]

Firstly I would like to ask this: If a game is made with original monsters and it is quite successful, wouldn't that give us better chance of making the Godzilla game of our dreams next?

Here's my opinion. We have a 2D fighting game featuring original kaiju with online capabilities for the consoles.
The cost for the 2D engine, making it for consoles, and the online play would be about $420,000 using Mr. Strange's numbers.
Then we add in the monsters. You can get 40 kaiju for about $20,000. For the environments...let's just say 15 of those. That's another $7,500.
We also would obviously need to allocate some funds for the audio part of the game as well.
So we're looking at a total of about $500,000. I think that is totally do-able. It may even cost less than that, who knows.

And if this does well then maybe some ears will be perked and we'll have a chance to make that Godzilla game that we've all been longing for.

Hmm...Good points. A kaiju fighter in the veins of Blazblue (In terms of combat system and visual presentation) would be pretty awesome though.

[Spuro]

But the console decline thing, do you suggest a downloadable game like DC Universe Online, or Street Fighters III Online?

Making it a PC game poses some problem - what controllers do we support? But it would dramatically lower costs.

Just to throw a number out there - every time you add DLC to a game, it costs $50,000 for Microsoft to review it. Sony is similar. A PC game is totally open - we can do anything, charge anything - it's totally up to us. I'm working on putting a game on Steam right now, so by the time we get around to this project I'll have an inside perspective on that process, as well.

I absolutely do not want a PC game. See, the problem is that I own a Mac, not a PC, so I wouldn't want this game to be for just a PC. I think most people here own an X-Box360 or a Playstation3, and at least with them, you don't have to worry about what kind of computer you own.

[Legionmaster]

But the console decline thing, do you suggest a downloadable game like DC Universe Online, or Street Fighters III Online?

Making it a PC game poses some problem - what controllers do we support? But it would dramatically lower costs.

Just to throw a number out there - every time you add DLC to a game, it costs $50,000 for Microsoft to review it. Sony is similar. A PC game is totally open - we can do anything, charge anything - it's totally up to us. I'm working on putting a game on Steam right now, so by the time we get around to this project I'll have an inside perspective on that process, as well.

I absolutely do not want a PC game. See, the problem is that I own a Mac, not a PC, so I wouldn't want this game to be for just a PC. I think most people here own an X-Box360 or a Playstation3, and at least with them, you don't have to worry about what kind of computer you own.

Macs are PCs. :/