Does Toho Hate Showa King Ghidorah?

[TitanoGoji16]

~Before I get started, I just wanted to say, since this is more about Toho's feelings towards and treatment of Showa Ghidorah in a real-life sense than it is about the actual character, I figured this didn't really belong in the Showa forum or the Showa Ghidorah monster conversation thread. If I am mistaken about that, my apologies.~

Now, that having been said... Does Toho have some sort of problem with the Showa incarnation of King Ghidorah? They seem absolutely dead set on never using him. At all. For anything. Ever. Whether it's comic books or video games or trading cards or what have you, he's never in... anything. Regardless if his origin in the respective media is a genetic creation from the future or a monster from space, it's always Heisei King Ghidorah that Toho utilizes when they want to use a "classic" design of the Three-Headed Monster.

Toho has no problem with pulling out Showa Gigan, Showa Mechagodzilla, or Showa Hedorah for games and comics. Showa Rodan and Showa Anguirus are more often than not the versions of the characters used when they make appearances. Even Godzilla gets Showa love thanks to the iconic status of the Kingoji, Mosugoji, and heck, even the Megarogoji. But whenever Ghidorah gets used, it's apparently Heisei or bust. The Godzilla: Rulers of Earth crew wanted to use Showa King Ghidorah in the comics and all Toho would allow them was a single panel in... the final issue? Second to final issue? Something like that. And it sounded like they were barely able to get away with that as it was.

What is going on here? And why? I know character designs and copyrights can be wonky in Japan, but why is it King Ghidorah is the only Showa incarnation Toho seems absolutely determined to shove aside into the abyss of forgottenness?

[GmkGoji]

I really dunno.

[TitanoGoji16]

I really dunno.

Thank you for the constructive contribution to the conversation.

[GmkGoji]

I really dunno.

Thank you for the constructive contribution to the conversation.

Oh, you are VERY WELCOME

But in all seriousness, I actually don't know. It might be part of the fact that Heisei Ghidorah is generally a better representation of the character rather than Showa Ghidorah. Millenium Ghidorah is too improptu, and my guess is Showa Ghidorah doesn't look menacing enough. Heisei Ghidorah probably is the best option for toho due to it being recognizable and relatable.

That a "Constructive contribution" good enough for you?

[szmigiel]

While the Heisei King Ghidorah has seem to become the default look, but then Heisei Godzilla was the default look for Godzilla for the longest time too. At least the PC Engine CD ROM Godzilla Game had 3 versions in the game (Showa, Heisei, and Mecha). Of course that was over 25 years ago now. I will say in the gashapon toys there is still Showa version showing up.

As far and the IDW not being allowed to use Showa version I had not heard of that. I would like to learn more about it.

[Malchik]

Maybe he comes off as a little too eastern oriental with its hair and crescent moon horn on its forehead.

[Gigantis]

Maybe he comes off as a little too eastern oriental with its hair and crescent moon horn on its forehead.

...So they think he's racist to everyone in the west?

[Malchik]

Maybe he comes off as a little too eastern oriental with its hair and crescent moon horn on its forehead.

...So they think he's racist to everyone in the west?

No, that would be the last thing to go through the Japanese's mind. Modern Ghidorah's western dragon design is just more fierce and globally accessible. Mothera, Rodan, these are monsters that fit well in any country. A creature like Baragon looks like he should be a statue at a temple.

[TitanoGoji16]

Maybe he comes off as a little too eastern oriental with its hair and crescent moon horn on its forehead.

Except GMK Ghidorah, who Toho also loves to use more than Showa Ghidorah, has the crescent moon horn as well.

[_JNavs_]

Could be the flailing heads and muppet like behavior caused them to reconsider their options when picking a Ghidorah to adapt.

Although I agree that the Showa design is criminally underused, and would much prefer to see that design in modern content than anymore Heisei King Ghidorahs.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Speculation on my end, but I think it's a result of several factors against Showa Ghidorah that make it seem not used/not liked even though it is:

1. Mecha King Ghidorah/ Monster X.
If you want to use Mecha King Ghidorah, you have to use Heisei Ghidorah. The comics that used MKG explicitly used the Heisei design. Additionally, in videogames, it's PROBABLY easier to make MKG with a Heisei Ghidorah model as a base.But I'm pretty sure it wasn't an issue with IDW using Showa Ghidorah, it was an issue of them having multiple differently designed Ghidorah's in the same comic series. Same thing for Monster X. While Monster X is from a bad movie, he has a good design. I could be wrong. Having these forms, allows for more narrative possibilities and variety to the fights (in Godzilla Ongoing Keizer Starts out as Monster X for a few issues and transforms as the final boss in the finale). You can't use Monster X with Showa Ghidorah. Additionally MKG allows Ghidorah to appear as an antagonist and then be a protagonist. You can also do more with a moveset for MKG in videogames.

2. Showa Ghidorah isn't gone
King Ghidorah is in Mothra 3. Minus some slightly different appearance in his heads, the creature is almost identical to the one seen in the Showa films. He has the same origin, comes in a meteor, and is basically the same creature. Consider similarly, that once again Keizer Ghidorah is pretty much Showa Ghidorah. Now obviously the design is different, but thematically it's the same (big alien boss monster with similar attacks and abilities).

3. Showa Ghidorah is boring (and already had plenty of time in the limelight).
-Sacrilegious I know, and this isn't an attack on the film-makers, but the original King Ghidorah is only cool in the contexts of the film he appears in. He's just a big random earth ending creature. His design isn't relative to what's going on around him other then the monsters he fights. Regardless of how you feel about the films they are in, Heisei Ghidorah, GMK Ghidorah, and Anime Ghidorah also have way more going for them and way more involvement in the series. Additionally, all three's designs, play into heavily into their film's narratives. Also note that each incarnation of Ghidorah I've just listed has only been in each film once. Showa Ghidorah was in four film entries and Zone Fighter. 3 of those films GTTHM, IOTAM and DAM are considered genre defining classics. Godzilla vs. Gigan is also considered a fan favorite.

4. Ghidorah is tied intrinsically to Godzilla
-Anytime Godzilla changes, Ghidorah will change as well.If there's ever a "Showa Revival", and "Showa Godzilla" reappears then I suspect Ghidorah will make a return.

All of this is my own speculation, but I think it all makes sense. I don't think Toho hates Ghidorah at all. I've seen plenty of merch and Showa Ghidorah advertised.

Added in 44 seconds:

No, that would be the last thing to go through the Japanese's mind.

What the fuck does that mean?

[mikelcho]

IIRC, King Ghidorah in the IDW ongoing storyline was supposed to be the Showa version (i.e., a space monster); he just looked like the Heisei version (and was thus turned into Mecha-King Ghidorah). The Dorats weren't used in this storyline.

At least, that's what I think IDW did here.

[LSD Jellyfish]

IIRC, King Ghidorah in the IDW ongoing storyline was supposed to be the Showa version (i.e., a space monster); he just looked like the Heisei version (and was thus turned into Mecha-King Ghidorah). The Dorats weren't used in this storyline.

At least, that's what I think IDW did here.

This is confusing but:

Ghidorah first appeared as a hero in Godzilla Kingdom of Monsters. In this instance he looked like GMK Ghidorah. He was killed/trashed by Godzilla. Next Monster X and Keizer Ghidorah re-appeared in Godzilla Ongoing. In Rulers of the Earth, they brought back Ghidorah to use MKG, so they retconned the Ghidorah design used into the Heisei one, instead of the GMK one. The series then ran it's course, and it became clear that Showa Ghidorah would not have time for a full appearance, so he appeared in a panel and didn't have a big role. I got the impression that there's no issue with using either Ghidorah, just that you could not have multiple Ghidorah's interacting or fighting.

[mikelcho]

IIRC, King Ghidorah in the IDW ongoing storyline was supposed to be the Showa version (i.e., a space monster); he just looked like the Heisei version (and was thus turned into Mecha-King Ghidorah). The Dorats weren't used in this storyline.

At least, that's what I think IDW did here.

This is confusing but:

Ghidorah first appeared as a hero in Godzilla Kingdom of Monsters. In this instance he looked like GMK Ghidorah. He was killed/trashed by Godzilla. Next Monster X and Keizer Ghidorah re-appeared in Godzilla Ongoing. In Rulers of the Earth, they brought back Ghidorah to use MKG, so they retconned the Ghidorah design used into the Heisei one, instead of the GMK one. The series then ran it's course, and it became clear that Showa Ghidorah would not have time for a full appearance, so he appeared in a panel and didn't have a big role. I got the impression that there's no issue with using either Ghidorah, just that you could not have multiple Ghidorah's interacting or fighting.

Okay, that kinda-sorta explains it. Thanks!

[LSD Jellyfish]

I'm going to post these so it's easier to get what I'm saying:

Spoiler:

This is all one Ghidorah, the same.

This Ghidorah is canonically different:

Spoiler:

Now from Gangsters and Goliath's there's an "ambigious hybrid Ghidorah".

Spoiler:

Showa Ghidorah in Godzilla in Hell

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

GMK Ghidorah in Godzilla Cataclysm

Spoiler:

I maintain the decisions might just be individual artists preferences, and what design of Ghidorah works better in the moment. Add to the earlier Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah Hypothesis.

The biggest conundrum, is in Godzilla the Half Century War where Heisei Ghidorah appears, but cannonically it's an evil space alien and never becomes MKG:

Spoiler:

Godzilla is ambiguously Millenium, Kiryu is there as well, and we have Showa Gigan. For some reason we have Heisei Ghidorah. Could just be a preference.

[mikelcho]

I'm going to post these so it's easier to get what I'm saying:

Spoiler:

This is all one Ghidorah, the same.

This Ghidorah is canonically different:

Spoiler:

Now from Gangsters and Goliath's there's an "ambigious hybrid Ghidorah".

Spoiler:

Showa Ghidorah in Godzilla in Hell

Spoiler:

I maintain the decisions might just be individual artists preferences, and what design of Ghidorah works better in the moment. Add to the earlier Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah Hypothesis.

I pushed the Spoiler buttons and all I got was these tiny pictures. It must be my computer; can you please make them appear bigger?

[LSD Jellyfish]

I'm going to post these so it's easier to get what I'm saying:

Spoiler:

This is all one Ghidorah, the same.

This Ghidorah is canonically different:

Spoiler:

Now from Gangsters and Goliath's there's an "ambigious hybrid Ghidorah".

Spoiler:

Showa Ghidorah in Godzilla in Hell

Spoiler:

I maintain the decisions might just be individual artists preferences, and what design of Ghidorah works better in the moment. Add to the earlier Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah Hypothesis.

I pushed the Spoiler buttons and all I got was these tiny pictures. It must be my computer; can you please make them appear bigger?

Unfortunately you have to right click and open them in a new tab. They should then open as larger images. I did this so there isn't a wall of text.

[mikelcho]

I'm going to post these so it's easier to get what I'm saying:

Spoiler:

This is all one Ghidorah, the same.

This Ghidorah is canonically different:

Spoiler:

Now from Gangsters and Goliath's there's an "ambigious hybrid Ghidorah".

Spoiler:

Showa Ghidorah in Godzilla in Hell

Spoiler:

I maintain the decisions might just be individual artists preferences, and what design of Ghidorah works better in the moment. Add to the earlier Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah Hypothesis.

I pushed the Spoiler buttons and all I got was these tiny pictures. It must be my computer; can you please make them appear bigger?

Unfortunately you have to right click and open them in a new tab. They should then open as larger images. I did this so there isn't a wall of text.

Okay, I finally figured out how to see them. Thanks!

[Rhedosaurus]

My guess is that he was reduced to a glorified punching bag so many times in the Showa series, that Toho seems to think that people think negatively of that version of him.

[Terasawa]

No one posting on the Toho Kingdom forums can answer this question. Every response is going to be baseless speculation.