Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

[shadowgigan]

IMO the Heisei Gamera dubs are among the top of the line. Leagues better than the Millennium Godzilla dubs post-G2K.

[godjacob]

IMO the Heisei Gamera dubs are among the top of the line. Leagues better than the Millennium Godzilla dubs post-G2K.

Hey, the Godzilla Final Wars dub is a treasure purely for the Xilien leader lol

[shadowgigan]

IMO the Heisei Gamera dubs are among the top of the line. Leagues better than the Millennium Godzilla dubs post-G2K.

Hey, the Godzilla Final Wars dub is a treasure purely for the Xilien leader lol

I've only watched the GFW dub once, recently, and I couldn't stand it. I thought the Japanese actor was much more dramatic and fitting.

[godjacob]

IMO the Heisei Gamera dubs are among the top of the line. Leagues better than the Millennium Godzilla dubs post-G2K.

Hey, the Godzilla Final Wars dub is a treasure purely for the Xilien leader lol

I've only watched the GFW dub once, recently, and I couldn't stand it. I thought the Japanese actor was much more dramatic and fitting.

Was more making a joke at the major camp of the Xilien leader dub lol

[edgaguirus]

He does sound very vaudevillian in that dub. It is amusing, though.

[CrimsonBloodX]

Even as a kid I thought the net webbing looked lame and kinda cheap.

Same here.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

A large amount of the post-1984 Godzilla films have the same problem of having great concepts but mediocre execution, people just hate the animes more because the animes have a lack of fun, visual flair, or action that keeps the other films memorable and having some degree of enjoyment.

Edit: I'm not saying every film post 1984 is bad at the animes (more specifically, I wrote this post with Vs Mothra 92, Tokyo S.O.S and Megaguirus in mind) or the anime trilogy is some underrated gem, just that some entries can be leveled the same criticism but aren't.

[godjacob]

A large amount of the post-1984 Godzilla films have the same problem of having great concepts but mediocre execution, people just hate the animes more because the animes have a lack of fun, visual flair, or action that keeps the other films at least memorable.

I'd argue a bit disconnect between Godzilla films in the main Toho Line/Legendary stuff and the anime is the main Godzilla films never hype themselves up to be as "ambitious" as the anime does only for "deep" concepts to fall harder on their face as they very often give a blatant bait and switch approach to things. "Hey here's Mechagodzilla! Just kidding he is a city. Hey, here's Ghidorah and he is gonna fight Godzilla! Well actually they just stand in the middle of a field with a bite for 40 minutes."

Anime series always felt like it was ashamed to be Kaiju films and have a "better than this" attitude behind it which is a touch insulting.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

A large amount of the post-1984 Godzilla films have the same problem of having great concepts but mediocre execution, people just hate the animes more because the animes have a lack of fun, visual flair, or action that keeps the other films at least memorable.

I'd argue a bit disconnect between Godzilla films in the main Toho Line/Legendary stuff and the anime is the main Godzilla films never hype themselves up to be as "ambitious" as the anime does only for "deep" concepts to fall harder on their face as they very often give a blatant bait and switch approach to things. "Hey here's Mechagodzilla! Just kidding he is a city. Hey, here's Ghidorah and he is gonna fight Godzilla! Well actually they just stand in the middle of a field with a bite for 40 minutes."

Anime series always felt like it was ashamed to be Kaiju films and have a "better than this" attitude behind it which is a touch insulting.

I see this point and it makes sense, the lack of action is the major point of contention.

However, I disagree completely with the "ashamed to be kaiju films" mindset. I have never gotten the impression Urobuchi did not get what Godzilla stood for or what the series meant, the directors might have not wanted to make a kaiju wrestling match but they had the same mindset as Urobuchi. The anime is an attempt to build on some of the concepts the original series had, it just got too ambitious and they executed some things poorly.

I also really hate the idea the Mechagodzilla thing was a bait and switch the filmmakers planned. There was never a hint of it except the toyline but everyone jumped on this idea. Like, yeah, having Mechagodzilla as a more active antagonist would be great but never did COTEB or POTM imply Mechagodzilla was going to show up in person. The only stuff that did was the merchandise line, and that's outside of the filmmakers control.

[godjacob]

A large amount of the post-1984 Godzilla films have the same problem of having great concepts but mediocre execution, people just hate the animes more because the animes have a lack of fun, visual flair, or action that keeps the other films at least memorable.

I'd argue a bit disconnect between Godzilla films in the main Toho Line/Legendary stuff and the anime is the main Godzilla films never hype themselves up to be as "ambitious" as the anime does only for "deep" concepts to fall harder on their face as they very often give a blatant bait and switch approach to things. "Hey here's Mechagodzilla! Just kidding he is a city. Hey, here's Ghidorah and he is gonna fight Godzilla! Well actually they just stand in the middle of a field with a bite for 40 minutes."

Anime series always felt like it was ashamed to be Kaiju films and have a "better than this" attitude behind it which is a touch insulting.

I see this point and it makes sense, the lack of action is the major point of contention.

However, I disagree completely with the "ashamed to be kaiju films" mindset. I have never gotten the impression Urobuchi did not get what Godzilla stood for or what the series meant, the directors might have not wanted to make a kaiju wrestling match but they had the same mindset as Urobuchi. The anime is an attempt to build on some of the concepts the original series had, it just got too ambitious and they executed some things poorly.

I also really hate the idea the Mechagodzilla thing was a bait and switch the filmmakers planned. There was never a hint of it except the toyline but everyone jumped on this idea. Like, yeah, having Mechagodzilla as a more active antagonist would be great but never did COTEB or POTM imply Mechagodzilla was going to show up in person. The only stuff that did was the merchandise line, and that's outside of the filmmakers control.

It isn't just a lack of action though, the lack of action is just the most jarring point of contention.

It's one thing to not want to tread the "silly" ground of the Showa-style Kaiju combat to be more mature and serious, but it felt as if the anime cared more about the message of its "deep" (But not actually deep if you think it over for longer than a minute) themes than actually putting anything of entertainment or even much interest on screen. When you take the Kaiju action out of the anime (Despite the third film promising an actual fight in the marketing) you are left with unlikable and shockingly underdeveloped characters in a nihilistic story that ultimately amounts to little.

Except when you have the name Mechagodzilla you know damn well people have that expectation. They could have called the city literally anything else if they wanted to avoid confusion but no they chose Mechagodzilla cause they knew it resonated with the fanbase despite the end result not being Mechagodzilla at all. That is like name dropping Anguirus in something only for it to be revealed to be a bulldozer instead. The fact that the anime Mechagodzilla has a full size model with listed abilities that went unused just adds salt to the wound (See the Wikizilla video on the subject good stuff.)

[SoggyNoodles2016]

I'd argue a bit disconnect between Godzilla films in the main Toho Line/Legendary stuff and the anime is the main Godzilla films never hype themselves up to be as "ambitious" as the anime does only for "deep" concepts to fall harder on their face as they very often give a blatant bait and switch approach to things. "Hey here's Mechagodzilla! Just kidding he is a city. Hey, here's Ghidorah and he is gonna fight Godzilla! Well actually they just stand in the middle of a field with a bite for 40 minutes."

Anime series always felt like it was ashamed to be Kaiju films and have a "better than this" attitude behind it which is a touch insulting.

I see this point and it makes sense, the lack of action is the major point of contention.

However, I disagree completely with the "ashamed to be kaiju films" mindset. I have never gotten the impression Urobuchi did not get what Godzilla stood for or what the series meant, the directors might have not wanted to make a kaiju wrestling match but they had the same mindset as Urobuchi. The anime is an attempt to build on some of the concepts the original series had, it just got too ambitious and they executed some things poorly.

I also really hate the idea the Mechagodzilla thing was a bait and switch the filmmakers planned. There was never a hint of it except the toyline but everyone jumped on this idea. Like, yeah, having Mechagodzilla as a more active antagonist would be great but never did COTEB or POTM imply Mechagodzilla was going to show up in person. The only stuff that did was the merchandise line, and that's outside of the filmmakers control.

It isn't just a lack of action though, the lack of action is just the most jarring point of contention.

It's one thing to not want to tread the "silly" ground of the Showa-style Kaiju combat to be more mature and serious, but it felt as if the anime cared more about the message of its "deep" (But not actually deep if you think it over for longer than a minute) themes than actually putting anything of entertainment or even much interest on screen. When you take the Kaiju action out of the anime (Despite the third film promising an actual fight in the marketing) you are left with unlikable and shockingly underdeveloped characters in a nihilistic story that ultimately amounts to little.

No, yes, I totally agree. The character work is the thing that sinks the film more for me. Again, I'm agreeing the films are flawed, I'm just saying it's annoying worst films that have these same problems get a pass. Like, the characters in Vs Mothra 92 are just as bad, they're just in a more postive setting so people ignore it.

Except when you have the name Mechagodzilla you know damn well people have that expectation. They could have called the city literally anything else if they wanted to avoid confusion but no they chose Mechagodzilla cause they knew it resonated with the fanbase despite the end result not being Mechagodzilla at all. That is like name dropping Anguirus in something only for it to be revealed to be a bulldozer instead. The fact that the anime Mechagodzilla has a full size model with listed abilities that went unused just adds salt to the wound (See the Wikizilla video on the subject good stuff.)

I've seen the Wikizilla video and no, they could not have just called the city anything.

Mechagodzilla City is an evolution of the concept of Mechagodzilla, a machine made to kill Godzilla by any means. This Godzilla overtook humanity and changed the world in his image? This Mechagodzilla evolves to become a city, the lasting remainder of humanity, and wants to slowly overtake every inch of the Earth, Godzilla or otherwise. It's a genius concept. I would like to see the Mechagodzilla, yeah but it'd be a god damn shame to lose the concept for it, especially for just another Mechagodzilla fight (not only a. have we not had a great Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla fight since 1975 [boom second unpopular opinion] but you really think the dudes who gave us Ghidorah nibbling on Godzilla for 30 minutes would have given us a good fight?)

I think really, it comes down to your opinon on Mechagodzilla City. You love the concept, it's ok, you don't, it's terrible.

And really, I'm not gonna yuck your yum.

[godjacob]

I see this point and it makes sense, the lack of action is the major point of contention.

However, I disagree completely with the "ashamed to be kaiju films" mindset. I have never gotten the impression Urobuchi did not get what Godzilla stood for or what the series meant, the directors might have not wanted to make a kaiju wrestling match but they had the same mindset as Urobuchi. The anime is an attempt to build on some of the concepts the original series had, it just got too ambitious and they executed some things poorly.

I also really hate the idea the Mechagodzilla thing was a bait and switch the filmmakers planned. There was never a hint of it except the toyline but everyone jumped on this idea. Like, yeah, having Mechagodzilla as a more active antagonist would be great but never did COTEB or POTM imply Mechagodzilla was going to show up in person. The only stuff that did was the merchandise line, and that's outside of the filmmakers control.

It isn't just a lack of action though, the lack of action is just the most jarring point of contention.

It's one thing to not want to tread the "silly" ground of the Showa-style Kaiju combat to be more mature and serious, but it felt as if the anime cared more about the message of its "deep" (But not actually deep if you think it over for longer than a minute) themes than actually putting anything of entertainment or even much interest on screen. When you take the Kaiju action out of the anime (Despite the third film promising an actual fight in the marketing) you are left with unlikable and shockingly underdeveloped characters in a nihilistic story that ultimately amounts to little.

No, yes, I totally agree. The character work is the thing that sinks the film more for me. Again, I'm agreeing the films are flawed, I'm just saying it's annoying worst films that have these same problems get a pass. Like, the characters in Vs Mothra 92 are just as bad, they're just in a more postive setting so people ignore it.

Except when you have the name Mechagodzilla you know damn well people have that expectation. They could have called the city literally anything else if they wanted to avoid confusion but no they chose Mechagodzilla cause they knew it resonated with the fanbase despite the end result not being Mechagodzilla at all. That is like name dropping Anguirus in something only for it to be revealed to be a bulldozer instead. The fact that the anime Mechagodzilla has a full size model with listed abilities that went unused just adds salt to the wound (See the Wikizilla video on the subject good stuff.)

I've seen the Wikizilla video and no, they could not have just called the city anything.

Mechagodzilla City is an evolution of the concept of Mechagodzilla, a machine made to kill Godzilla by any means. This Godzilla overtook humanity and changed the world in his image? This Mechagodzilla evolves to become a city, the lasting remainder of humanity, and wants to slowly overtake every inch of the Earth, Godzilla or otherwise. It's a genius concept. I would like to see the Mechagodzilla, yeah but it'd be a god damn shame to lose the concept for it, especially for just another Mechagodzilla fight (not only a. have we not had a great Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla fight since 1975 [boom second unpopular opinion] but you really think the dudes who gave us Ghidorah nibbling on Godzilla for 30 minutes would have given us a good fight?)

I think really, it comes down to your opinon on Mechagodzilla City. You love the concept, it's ok, you don't, it's terrible.

And really, I'm not gonna yuck your yum.

Damn I wish I knew how to make seperate quote reply blocks XD

Not saying you are saying the anime is flawless, just like I am not saying the anime did not have some decent ideas on the table.

I don't think it is the film's tone that is the issue, Godzilla (54) is even more dark than the anime is but it is rightly praised. It is just a Kaiju series without...Kaiju in it. That really is the difference, Godzilla vs. Mothra is a spiritual successor/sequel to Mothra and a standard Kaiju flick with standard Kaiju action. The human drama is not needed to carry the movie like the anime decides to rely upon extensively. So if the human plot falls flat then it is far more noticeable than in a standard kaiju clash film.

Except you absolutely could. You could replace Mechagodzilla with literally any anti-Godzilla weapon (Where's my Moguera City?) or even make a new AI name since that is all Mechagodzilla serves as. I don't think anyone has a problem with the idea of an AI city that comes to life to expand and desire to consume all including Godzilla. The problem is that they decided to slap Mechagodzilla's name on it giving an expectation that the actual mecha fans love would make any appearance at some point; something the trailer seemed to show with its head lightning up and bringing life to the city. Sort of the final boss within the City itself only for Mechagodzilla to be revealed as "dead" when they arrive.

Speaking of Mechagodzilla City we really need more KWCE fights to take place in it XD

[Desghidorah]

Honestly I feel Bagan's treatment of the fandom has made a complete 180. In the early 2000s, DBZ levels of stupidly OP Bagan were astoundingly common; no doubt due to many growing with the Heisei series, Bagan's mysterious air about it, and use in Super Godzilla. But nowadays in the 2010s and into 2020, Bagan is more commonly the target of snark and derision in my experience. Often the joke being he's built up like he was in the 2000s and then soundly beaten. It was subversive the first couple dozen times, but nowadays people trying to be subversive in that way are more often just doing the new mainstream treatment. Gets annoying to me when some still try to act like they're being original for hating on/beating up the unused beast.

[Gigantis]

Honestly I feel Bagan's treatment of the fandom has made a complete 180. In the early 2000s, DBZ levels of stupidly OP Bagan were astoundingly common; no doubt due to many growing with the Heisei series, Bagan's mysterious air about it, and use in Super Godzilla. But nowadays in the 2010s and into 2020, Bagan is more commonly the target of snark and derision in my experience. Often the joke being he's built up like he was in the 2000s and then soundly beaten. It was subversive the first couple dozen times, but nowadays people trying to be subversive in that way are more often just doing the new mainstream treatment. Gets annoying to me when some still try to act like they're being original for hating on/beating up the unused beast.

Yeah that's what happens sometimes in fandoms. One guy is super popular for some reason, and then later on people get so sick of them they go from Ensemble Darkhorse to Scrappy status.

Bagan still sucks though, he needs to stay gone.

[Desghidorah]

Honestly I feel Bagan's treatment of the fandom has made a complete 180. In the early 2000s, DBZ levels of stupidly OP Bagan were astoundingly common; no doubt due to many growing with the Heisei series, Bagan's mysterious air about it, and use in Super Godzilla. But nowadays in the 2010s and into 2020, Bagan is more commonly the target of snark and derision in my experience. Often the joke being he's built up like he was in the 2000s and then soundly beaten. It was subversive the first couple dozen times, but nowadays people trying to be subversive in that way are more often just doing the new mainstream treatment. Gets annoying to me when some still try to act like they're being original for hating on/beating up the unused beast.

Yeah that's what happens sometimes in fandoms. One guy is super popular for some reason, and then later on people get so sick of them they go from Ensemble Darkhorse to Scrappy status.

Bagan still sucks though, he needs to stay gone.

Well at least Bagan, for all the lack of movies, didn't give us a bad film like Planet Eater so I see fewer black marks than Ghidorah. Then again as much as I love ol'tri-gnoggin, I do feel Toho's overusing em.

[godjacob]

Honestly I feel Bagan's treatment of the fandom has made a complete 180. In the early 2000s, DBZ levels of stupidly OP Bagan were astoundingly common; no doubt due to many growing with the Heisei series, Bagan's mysterious air about it, and use in Super Godzilla. But nowadays in the 2010s and into 2020, Bagan is more commonly the target of snark and derision in my experience. Often the joke being he's built up like he was in the 2000s and then soundly beaten. It was subversive the first couple dozen times, but nowadays people trying to be subversive in that way are more often just doing the new mainstream treatment. Gets annoying to me when some still try to act like they're being original for hating on/beating up the unused beast.

Ironic considering it was this site that helped to spring the "Bagan is OP unstoppable god!" in its early KCW canon that led to the divisive rep lol

I think it ties into the "it's popular now it sucks!" territory, where something becomes the new hype thing people get behind and wank over which led to a strong push back by fans annoyed of hearing about it. I feel GFW Godzilla and Keizer Ghidorah got this treatment as well with then statements and fan hype of that film proclaiming them as the most OP badasses and fans more critical of the film and those just sick of the talk pushing back against the talks making it a complete inverse.

I personally was turned off by Bagan because of the crowning as the Super monster over all others, but still like the concept behind him and feel he could have a place within the Godzilla world so long as it is not shoved in our face about how special and cool and strong he is. More part of the roster rather than overshadowing everyone.

[Desghidorah]

Honestly I feel Bagan's treatment of the fandom has made a complete 180. In the early 2000s, DBZ levels of stupidly OP Bagan were astoundingly common; no doubt due to many growing with the Heisei series, Bagan's mysterious air about it, and use in Super Godzilla. But nowadays in the 2010s and into 2020, Bagan is more commonly the target of snark and derision in my experience. Often the joke being he's built up like he was in the 2000s and then soundly beaten. It was subversive the first couple dozen times, but nowadays people trying to be subversive in that way are more often just doing the new mainstream treatment. Gets annoying to me when some still try to act like they're being original for hating on/beating up the unused beast.

Ironic considering it was this site that helped to spring the "Bagan is OP unstoppable god!" in its early KCW canon that led to the divisive rep lol

I think it ties into the "it's popular now it sucks!" territory, where something becomes the new hype thing people get behind and wank over which led to a strong push back by fans annoyed of hearing about it. I feel GFW Godzilla and Keizer Ghidorah got this treatment as well with then statements and fan hype of that film proclaiming them as the most OP badasses and fans more critical of the film and those just sick of the talk pushing back against the talks making it a complete inverse.

I personally was turned off by Bagan because of the crowning as the Super monster over all others, but still like the concept behind him and feel he could have a place within the Godzilla world so long as it is not shoved in our face about how special and cool and strong he is. More part of the roster rather than overshadowing everyone.

KWC contributed but I can distinctly recall other instances prior to this like the New Era fanfics that got popular on fansites like Kaijuphile and Rodan's Roost. Plus Matt Frank using him as the final boss in Godzilla Neo.

But yeah, 'fan wanking' is a good term for it how I react to people trying to be 'subversive' now. Despite the Bagan vs. Everyone KWC, I almost feel he's been a practical jobber since with multiple losses. There are characters with far higher win records and yet people still seem to act like having Bagan lose is original and shit on the "OP GODGAN" trope like it's still popular.

It's approaching a point I don't think we'll see a win for it much like Monster X went without one for a long, long time.

Weird thing is I always had a soft spot for Bagan, and when I was young I admit, yeah, it was the hype. But nowadays I am fond of it more for how bound and determined Tanaka seemed to get it in a movie. It originated in a draft he himself proposed to revive the franchise after a half decade of trying and being the only one of the still-living original creators to have not given up on the Big G, and Tomoyuki kept trying to get it in a film practically right up to his death; to the point you can find traces of Bagan is about half the Heisei movies and a chunk of the Rebirth trilogy. That to me as a creator with his own pet projects, I find endearing.

[godjacob]

Honestly I feel Bagan's treatment of the fandom has made a complete 180. In the early 2000s, DBZ levels of stupidly OP Bagan were astoundingly common; no doubt due to many growing with the Heisei series, Bagan's mysterious air about it, and use in Super Godzilla. But nowadays in the 2010s and into 2020, Bagan is more commonly the target of snark and derision in my experience. Often the joke being he's built up like he was in the 2000s and then soundly beaten. It was subversive the first couple dozen times, but nowadays people trying to be subversive in that way are more often just doing the new mainstream treatment. Gets annoying to me when some still try to act like they're being original for hating on/beating up the unused beast.

Ironic considering it was this site that helped to spring the "Bagan is OP unstoppable god!" in its early KCW canon that led to the divisive rep lol

I think it ties into the "it's popular now it sucks!" territory, where something becomes the new hype thing people get behind and wank over which led to a strong push back by fans annoyed of hearing about it. I feel GFW Godzilla and Keizer Ghidorah got this treatment as well with then statements and fan hype of that film proclaiming them as the most OP badasses and fans more critical of the film and those just sick of the talk pushing back against the talks making it a complete inverse.

I personally was turned off by Bagan because of the crowning as the Super monster over all others, but still like the concept behind him and feel he could have a place within the Godzilla world so long as it is not shoved in our face about how special and cool and strong he is. More part of the roster rather than overshadowing everyone.

KWC contributed but I can distinctly recall other instances prior to this like the New Era fanfics that got popular on fansites like Kaijuphile and Rodan's Roost. Plus Matt Frank using him as the final boss in Godzilla Neo.

But yeah, 'fan wanking' is a good term for it how I react to people trying to be 'subversive' now. Despite the Bagan vs. Everyone KWC, I almost feel he's been a practical jobber since with multiple losses. There are characters with far higher win records and yet people still seem to act like having Bagan lose is original and poop on the "OP GODGAN" trope like it's still popular.

It's approaching a point I don't think we'll see a win for it much like Monster X went without one for a long, long time.

Weird thing is I always had a soft spot for Bagan, and when I was young I admit, yeah, it was the hype. But nowadays I am fond of it more for how bound and determined Tanaka seemed to get it in a movie. It originated in a draft he himself proposed to revive the franchise after a half decade of trying and being the only one of the still-living original creators to have not given up on the Big G, and Tomoyuki kept trying to get it in a film practically right up to his death; to the point you can find traces of Bagan is about half the Heisei movies and a chunk of the Rebirth trilogy. That to me as a creator with his own pet projects, I find endearing.

Yeah but I'd argue KWC was the biggest source of it as it got the biggest exposure, but I agree it's been around longer than this site without question.

Well, a factor in this is some of his "losses" in KWC are not actually losses. During the Bagan is OP craze, he would often be written as "a fraction of what he was before" or "nearly drained" or other wolf had a flu scenarios to protect him even in defeat. Making his "losses" to Destoroyah and Utsuko Ikusagami for example having giant asterisks next to them as in ways they make the winner look weaker even in "victory." Or requiring armies to stop him as shown in Bagan vs. Everyone and Bagan vs. Team Xilien.

I don't think Bagan will get it half as bad as Monster X. Monster X was written with contempt and an utter joke in half his losses during his streak as if writers here had a vendetta against him to make it pathetic as possible. One writer even admitting to this bias I believe. Two of his recent losses (Bagan vs. King Ghidorah & Bagan vs. Team Xilien) make him look very strong in defeat and I am sure he'll get a win in the near future to balance it out.

I agree, the most endearing thing about him is the passion Tanaka had behind making him canon as that is the reason I argue Bagan does have a place in the Godzilla family even with his non-canon status in most media.

[Voyager]

Man, I sure do hate and love Monster X vs Gabara.

[edgaguirus]

I've always felt sorry for Bagan. The kaiju has been passed over so many times, and only gets billing in a video game. Then he gets turned into a punching bag for critics. Bagan had potential as a Heisei era monster; The game design would fit in with the 90s aesthetic, but now he's nothing more than a what if kaiju.